Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-17-09 WT Study (VIGILANT)

by blondie 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-17-09 WT Study (February 15, 2009, pages 15-17)(VIGILANT)Review comments will be in red
    WT material from today's WT will be in black
    Quotes from other sources will be in quotes boxes
    w = Watchtower
    g = Awake
    jv = Proclaimers book

    Bible translations www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
    WT publications www.strictlygenteel.co.uk
    WT child abuse www.silentlambs.org
    Blood issue www.ajwrb.org
    United Nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

    Also posted on

    http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com

    www.jehovahs-witness.net

    http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php

    http://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/


    "BE VIGILANT"
    "The end of all things has drawn close .... Be vigilant with a view to prayers.”--1 PET. 4:7.


    OPENING COMMENTS

    Notice use of brackets added to scriptures. This way the WTS makes it appear that their interpretations are part of the bible.

    End of all things--wasn't Peter and his readers looking forward to the event that occurred in 70 C.E.? Not

    1874, 1878, 1914, 1915, 1920, 1925, 1975, ...


    http://www.freeminds.org/Doctrine/Chronology/watchtower-dates.html

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/1800s.htm


    START OF ARTICLE

    Q 1. What was the theme of Jesus' teaching?


    WHEN Jesus Christ was on earth, the theme of his teaching was God's Kingdom. By means of that Kingdom, Jehovah will vindicate his universal
    sovereignty and sanctify his name. Thus, Jesus taught his disciples to pray to God: "Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth." (Matt. 4:17; 6:9, 10) That Kingdom government is very shortly going to bring an end to Satan's world and then supervise the doing of God's will throughout the earth. As Daniel foretold, God's Kingdom "will crush and put an end to all these [present-day] kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."--Dan. 2:44.

    [present-day]

    Is the Kingdom the theme in WTS "suggested" presentations? Should the official presentations be flawed and the individual jw ones be on the mark?


    *** km 11/07 p. 4 What to Say About the Magazines ***
    What to Say About the Magazines

    The Watchtower Nov. 15

    “All of us want to have a happy, meaningful life. Do you agree with what Jesus said here about the key to happiness? [Read Matthew 5:3. Then
    allow for response.] This magazine explains how the satisfying of our inborn, fundamental need to worship God gives meaning to our life.”

    Awake! Nov.

    “In our age of science and skepticism, many people think that the Bible is out-of-date. How do you feel about that? [Allow for response.] Did you
    know that every statement in the Bible that touches on science is accurate? [Read Job 26:7.] This special issue of Awake! gives compelling reasons why the Bible can be trusted.”

    The Watchtower Dec. 1

    “How would you answer this question? [Read question on cover. Then allow for response.] It is God’s purpose to unify the human race. [Read Psalm 46:8, 9.] This magazine shows what the Bible says about how unity will be achieved.”

    Awake! Dec.

    “Some feel that death is a passage to an afterlife; others believe that it is the end. Do you personally think that death is something to fear? [Allow
    for response.] Notice how Job felt about the prospect of his death. [Read Job 14:14, 15.] This magazine gives the Bible’s clear explanation on
    what happens to us when we die.”


    For years the WTS "vindicated" God's name until 1986....many old-timers still talk about the vindication of God's name just like many still don't grasp that the "1914 generation" is a teaching of the past.

    Quote

    *** w95 5/15 p. 25 par. 17 Part 2—Flashes of Light—Great and Small ***Similarly, for a long time, Witnesses spoke of the vindication of Jehovah’s name. But had Satan called Jehovah’s name into question? For that matter, had any of Satan’s agents done so, as if Jehovah did not have a right to that name? No, not at all. It was not the name of Jehovah that was challenged and that needed to be vindicated. That is why the Watch Tower Society’s recent publications do not speak of Jehovah’s name as being vindicated. They speak of Jehovah’s sovereignty as being vindicated and of his name as being sanctified.

    VERY SHORTLY? 1914 to 2009 = 95 years (or add 21 when starting from 1874 = 130 years)

    END SATAN'S WORLD = all 7 billion plus non-jws, including their children to die everlastingly without any hope of a resurrection


    Q 2. (a) How would the followers of Jesus know that he was present in Kingdom power? (b) What else would the sign indicate?

    2. Because the coming of God's Kingdom was of great importance to Jesus' followers, they asked him: "What will be the sign of your presence
    and of the conclusion of the system of things?" (Matt. 24:3) A visible sign would be provided in view of the fact that Christ's presence in Kingdom
    power would be invisible to those on earth. That sign would be composed of various features foretold in the Scriptures. Accordingly, Jesus' followers alive at that time could discern that he had begun ruling in heaven. It would also mark the beginning of the period of time known in the Bible as "the last days" of the wicked system of things that now dominates the earth.--2 Tim. 3:1-5, 13; Matt. 24:7-14.

    VISIBLE SIGN - seen in 1914 or 1925 or 1943?

    Quote

    *** w84 2/1 p. 23 par. 9 ‘Oneness of Spirit’ in a Rapidly Growing Flock ***Thus in 1925 the “slave” class, by means of The Watch Tower, helped its readers to appreciate that God’s Kingdom had been in operation in the heavens since 1914 and that, in reality, there are just two organizations—Jehovah’s and Satan’s.

    Jesus followers (only WTS)--discern 1874 or 1914

    1914 the beginning or the end?

    Quote

    "...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (Watchtower founder, Charles Taze Russell, The Time is at Hand, p. 99).

    "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced" (Ibid., p. 101).

    http://www.jwfiles.com/lies.htm


    Be Vigilant in the Last Days

    Q 3. Why would Christians need to be vigilant?


    3. The apostle Peter wrote: "The end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers." (1 Pet.
    4:7) Jesus' followers would need to be vigilant, watchful of world events indicating that he was present in Kingdom power. And their vigilance would take on greater urgency as the end of the present wicked system of things approached. Jesus told his disciples: "Keep on the watch, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming [to execute judgment on Satan's world]." --Mark 13:35, 36.

    [to execute judgment on Satan's world]

    Were Jesus' followers (that is the WTS) ACCURATELY vigilant seeing the above information?

    greater urgency up until 1975 (as in 1925) when the end supposed approached?

    DO NOT KNOW WHEN except in 1925 and 1975


    http://www.seanet.com/~raines/millions.html

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/1975.htm


    Q 4. Contrast the attitude of people who are part of Satan's world with that of Jehovah's servants. (Include box.--see scan below)

    4. People in general are under Satan's domination, and they have not been watchful as to the meaning of world events. They do not discern Christ's presence in Kingdom power. But Christ's true followers have been vigilant and have discerned the real meaning of what has happened in the past century. Since 1925, Jehovah's Witnesses have recognized that World War I and the events that followed amount to sure evidence that Christ's presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914. Thus, the last days of this wicked system of things under Satan had started. Many observant people, though not knowing the meaning, recognize the dramatic Difference between the period before World War I and the period
    since.--See the box "The Age of Turbulence Began."

    people in general--all non-jws

    WTS discerned Christ's presence or the end in 1874, 1878, 1914, 1915, 1920, 1925, 1975, (1984), (1994)

    Christ's true followers--only jws

    Then from 1874 to 1925, the WTS did not discern that the kingdom would take power in heaven in 1914, only 9 years later, while believing that the
    end would come in 1914, 1915, 1920, and 1925.


    BOX

    Observant but not knowing...was Greenspan alive in 1914?

    Contemporaneous accounts--who?

    SEEMED

    He only mentions conveniences not how people treated each other. The end of slavery was not mainly out of a moral concern but an economic
    one.

    SENSE of security--was it real?

    Who is Benjamin M. Anderson?

    Who is G.J. Meyer?


    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/169760/1/Alan-Greenspan-supports-the-1914-doctrine


    Q 5. Why is it vital that we continue to be vigilant?

    5. For nearly a century now, horrendous events taking place around the world testify that we are living in the last days. There is very little time left
    before Jehovah gives Christ the command to lead powerful angelic forces against Satan's world. (Rev. 19:11-21) True Christians are told to keep
    on the watch. Hence, it is urgent to continue to do that as we anticipate this system's end. (Matt. 24: 42) We must remain watchful, and under
    Christ's direction, we must accomplish a specific work throughout the entire earth.

    nearly a century--SOON?

    living in last days or the end was in 1914?

    LITTLE TIME LEFT

    Satan's world--all non-jws

    True Christians--only jws

    anticipate this system's end--the end of 7 BILLION people including children, an everlasting end without resurrection

    are jws interested in reaching every individual with the "kingdom" message?

    Quote

    *** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 17 “Keep on the Watch” ***
    Fifth, we see a global preaching work being accomplished, which Jesus said would take place just before the end of this system. Jesus stated:
    “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew
    24:14) Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.

    An Earth-Wide Work

    Q 6, 7. How has the Kingdom-preaching work progressed during the last days?


    6. The work that Jehovah's servants are to do was foretold as part of the composite sign indicating that we are in the last days of this present wicked system of things. Jesus described this global work when he enumerated various things that would happen in the time of the end. Included in his prophecy was this meaningful statement: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."--Matt. 24:14.

    Jehovah's servants--only jws (where's Christ?)

    good news preached in all the inhabited earth--what about India, China, Muslim countries?


    7. Think of some facts related to that detail of Jesus' prophecy. The number of people proclaiming the good news was very small when the last
    days began in 1914. By now that number has grown to huge proportions. There are more than 7,000,000 Witnesses of Jehovah preaching throughout the earth, organized into more than 100,000 congregations. An additional 10,000,000 people gathered with Jehovah's Witnesses in 2008 on the occasion of the Memorial of Christ's death. That was a significant increase in attendance over the preceding year.

    From 1879 to 1914, those associated with the WTS were only looking for the anointed.

    Compared to 7 billion people is 7 million HUGE? 7,000,000,000 compared to 7,000,000 is 1 out of 1,000 = .001%

    Are those in India, China, Muslim countries being reached?

    The additional 10 million are mostly inactive, df'd, da'd, and never been (unbaptized) jws. Unless they get baptized and associate "regularly" they
    too are slated for eternal destruction without hope of a resurrection.



    Q 8. Why has opposition not prevented our preaching from being successful?

    8. What a mighty witness about God's Kingdom is being given in all nations before this system's end comes! That is despite the fact that Satan is "the god of this system of things." (2 Cor. 4:4) All political, religious, and commercial elements of this world as well as its propaganda channels
    are being influenced by him. What, then, accounts for the amazing success of the witness work? It has to be Jehovah's backing. Thus, the Kingdom-preaching work proceeds marvellously despite Satan's attempts to stop it.

    What about the mighty witness by other religions that the WTS built on?

    political/religious/commercial was a "trinity" used many, many times by Rutherford with interesting illustrations.

    Amazing success??? Proof, they present none but still say that numbers = God's backing

    Satan's attempts to stop--only WTS?


    www.forum18.org


    Q 9. Why can our spiritual prosperity be called a miracle?

    9. The success of the Kingdom-preaching work and the growth and spiritual prosperity of Jehovah's people can be described as a miracle.
    Without God's support, which includes his guidance and protection of his people, the preaching work would not be possible. (Read Matthew 19:26.) We can be sure that with God's holy spirit working on the hearts of vigilant people who are willing to serve, this preaching work will be carried on to a successful conclusion, "and then the end will come." That time is rapidly approaching.

    success--miracle: again the WTS presents something as a fact without any proof.

    Jehovah's people--only jws, where is Christ in this identifier...don't jws consider themselves Christians?

    The preaching work is being done by other groups---do they have God's backing, not according to the WTS...they are part of "false" religion soon
    to be destroyed.

    RAPIDLY APPROACHING


    "The Great Tribulation"

    Q 10. How did Jesus describe the coming great tribulation?


    10. The end of this wicked system will come in what is called "the great tribulation." (Rev. 7:14) The Bible does not tell us how long that will last,
    but Jesus said: "Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Matt. 24:21) When we consider the tribulation that this world has already experienced, such as in World War II when an estimated 50 to 60 million lives were lost, the coming great tribulation will be very severe indeed. It will reach its climax in the battle of Armageddon. That is when Jehovah will unleash his executional forces to destroy every vestige of Satan's earthly system.--Rev. 16:14, 16.

    END = GT

    Did you know that the WTS taught until 1970 that the GT had started in 1914 and had a temporary interruption in 1918.

    Quote

    *** w58 11/15 pp. 691-692 par. 22 Signs and Wonders in the Time of the End ***
    Jehovah God did so. In 1918 he stopped the great tribulation that had begun upon the enemy organization of Satan the Devil. Along with it World War I ended on November 11 of that year. His time for Armageddon, “the war of the great day of God the Almighty,” was still future. In this way he cut short the days of that tribulation upon Satan’s organization invisible and visible.

    Quote

    *** w61 11/1 p. 671 Questions From Readers ***
    The fulfillment of divine prophecy indicates that the last way is the one by which the “great tribulation” is cut short. According to the Bible, A.D. 1914 is a fixed date. It was fixed for the ending of the “appointed times of the nations” and for the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens. (Luke 21:24; Rev. 12:1-5) The birth of the Kingdom in the heavens meant the start of the war in heaven against the Devil and his unholy angels up there. By this war in heaven against the Devil’s invisible organization the “great tribulation” began. Of course, it had its effects upon the visible part of Satan’s organization here on earth. The war resulted in ousting the Devil and his demons from heaven and confining their area of activity to this earth. Their keeping active about the earth was not prevented, for the Devil and his demons were not abyssed on being confined to this earth. (Rev. 12:6-17) Thus for the time being the great tribulation upon Satan’s organization was interrupted or discontinued. Evidently that occurred by A.D. 1918.

    *** w65 12/15 p. 754 par. 31 “We Should Not Neglect the House of Our God” ***Do you, our reader, see yourself in that “great crowd”? If so, then you know that the “great tribulation” mentioned above began with the “beginning of pangs of distress” during the years 1914-1918, as foretold by Jesus Christ, the “Lamb” who shed his blood in sacrifice to God for cleansing away the “sin of the world.” (Matt. 24:8; John 1:29)

    Quote

    *** w70 1/15 p. 52 par. 9 Peace with God amid the “Great Tribulation” ***On account of his “chosen ones” he cuts short the days. How? Back in the year 1925 the suggestion was set out in the leading article of the Watch Tower issue of May 1, entitled “For the Elect’s Sake,” that “those days” of the “great tribulation” were cut short in the middle. The explanation was given that the “great tribulation” had begun in 1914 C.E. and that it was not allowed to run its full course then but God stopped World War I in November of 1918. From then on God was allowing an interval for the activity of his anointed remnant of elect Christians before he let the final part of the “great tribulation” resume at the battle of Armageddon and come to its termination. This would allow for sheeplike persons to be saved.—Matt. 25:31-46.

    Destroy every vestige--all 7 billion non-jws, including children

    Q 11, 12. What event signals the start of the great tribulation?

    11. Bible prophecy does not give a date for the first phase of the great tribulation to begin, though it does tell us what extraordinary event will
    signal its start. That event is the destruction of all false religion by the political powers. In Bible prophecies found in Revelation chapters 17 and
    18, false religion is likened to a harlot who has had immoral intercourse with the political systems of the earth. Revelation 17:16 shows that the
    time will soon come when these political elements "will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire."

    Bible prophecy does not give a date for the first phase (does it give one for the second?)

    Instead of UN the WTS says political elements....political powers.

    Quote

    *** w06 3/15 p. 29 par. 9 Keep Clear of False Worship! ***Correspondingly, soon the world governments will take such action against false religion.

    Quote

    *** w05 9/15 p. 19 par. 13 Walk by Faith, Not by Sight! ***
    Something similar is about to take place in our day. Elements within the United Nations will be involved in the execution of divine judgment.

    12. When the time comes for that to happen, God will "put it into their [the political rulers'] hearts to carry out his thought" to destroy all false
    religion. (Rev. 17:17) So this destruction can be said to come from God. It is his judgment against hypocritical religion that for so long has taught
    doctrines contrary to God's will and that has persecuted his servants. The world in general does not anticipate this coming destruction of false religion. But Jehovah's faithful servants do. And throughout these last days, they have been telling people about it.

    [the political rulers]


    persecuted his servants--only jws


    Q 13. What indicates that the end of false religion will take place swiftly?

    13 It will be a great shock for people to see false religion destroyed. Bible prophecy shows that even some of "the kings of the earth" are going to
    declare regarding that destruction: "Too bad, too bad, ... because in one hour your judgment has arrived!" (Rev. 18:9, 10, 16, 19) The Bible's use
    of the words "one hour" shows that this event will take place relatively swiftly.

    ONE HOUR--relatively swiftly?


    Q 14. When the enemies of Jehovah finally turn on his servants, how will God respond?

    14. We understand that some time after false religion has been destroyed, there will be an attack on Jehovah's servants, who have been proclaiming his judgment messages . (Ezek. 38:14-16) When that attack begins, the attackers will have to confront Jehovah, who promises to protect his faithful people. Jehovah declares: "In my ardor, in the fire of my fury, I shall have to speak. ... And they will have to know that I am Jehovah." (Read Ezekiel 38: 18-23.) God states in his Word: "He that is touching you [his faithful servants] is touching my eyeball." (Zech. 2:

    [his faithful servants]

    WE UNDERSTAND?

    attack on Jehovah's servants--only jws

    judgment messages?

    Ezekiel--OT
    Zechariah--OT


    jws expect to be protected as individuals during the GT--does the WTS promise that?

    Quote

    *** w02 12/1 p. 11 What Joshua Remembered ***
    This should move a person to ask: ‘What about me? Has the effort I have devoted to studying and pondering Jehovah’s promises convinced me
    of their trustworthiness? Do I believe that God can protect me along with his people during the coming great tribulation?’

    Quote

    *** w97 7/1 p. 11 par. 12 “Jehovah Will Not Forsake His People” ***What about Jehovah’s people today? As an organization, we can count on divine protection and safe passage through the last days and the great tribulation. (Isaiah 54:17; Revelation 7:9-17) However, as individuals, we recognize that “time and unforeseen occurrence” befall all humans.

    How We Should Be Affected

    Q 15. How should we be affected by knowing that this system's end is near?


    15. How should knowing that the end of this wicked system is rapidly approaching affect us? The apostle Peter wrote: "Since all these things are
    thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion!" (2 Pet. 3: 11) Those words emphasize the need to keep close watch to make sure that our conduct is in harmony with God's requirements and that our life includes works of
    godly devotion, reflecting our love for Jehovah. Such deeds include doing our utmost in preaching the good news of the Kingdom before the end
    comes. Peter also wrote: "The end of all things has drawn close .... Be vigilant with a view to prayers." (1 Pet. 4:7) We draw close to Jehovah and
    show our love for him by constantly going to him in prayer, asking him to give us guidance by means of his holy spirit and his worldwide congregation.

    KNOWING....RAPIDLY APPROACHING? 1914-2009.............HOW MUCH LONGER?

    works = preaching WTS dogma
    conduct = WTS requirements

    Show love for Jesus? Draw close to Jesus?
    any guidance apart from the WTS per the WTS?

    Quote

    *** w07 12/15 p. 19 par. 15 “Stand Firm and See the Salvation of Jehovah” ***Today, it is so important that we follow the guidance that comes to us through “the faithful and discreet slave”! (Matthew 24:45)

    Quote

    *** w98 3/15 p. 21 par. 11 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom ***Like the early Christians, the Witnesses gladly look to the mature brothers of the Governing Body for Bible-based direction and guidance in matters of worship.

    Q 16. Why do we need to adhere closely to God's counsel?

    16. In these perilous times, we need to adhere closely to the counsel of God's Word: "Keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as
    wise persons, buying out the opportune time for yourselves, because the days are wicked." (Eph. 5:15, 16) Wickedness is now more abundant
    than in any other time in history. Satan has devised many things to prevent people from doing Jehovah's will or simply to distract them. As God's servants, we know this, and we do not want to allow anything to undermine our loyalty to God. We also know what is shortly going to take place, and we put our confidence in Jehovah and his purposes.-- Read 1 John 2:15-17.

    Is wickedness more abundant now on the earth than any other time in history? What about the time before the flood?

    So what are those things that "prevent" and "distract"?

    Quote

    *** km 4/94 p. 3 par. 4 Serve Jehovah Without Distraction ***
    Satan’s world promotes the love of material things. Acquiring more possessions or safeguarding them is the driving force in the lives of millions.

    Do you find yourself working longer hours secularly just to maintain the life-style to which you have become accustomed? Has this affected your service to Jehovah? Are your material possessions crowding out Kingdom interests? (Matt. 6:24) Can you simplify your life to devote more time to spiritual interests?

    If we are not careful, we may become so engrossed in the ordinary affairs of life that we begin to neglect spiritual pursuits. Remember the people of Noah’s day. They were so preoccupied with social affairs, eating and drinking, marrying and getting their children married, that they took no note of Noah’s warning message about the impending Deluge.

    One of the greatest distractions the Devil uses to draw attention away from the Kingdom issue is the pursuit of pleasure. Millions in Christendom have put pleasure in the place of God. They prefer being amused by some diversion rather than taking a serious interest in God’s Word. (2 Tim. 3:4) Of course, wholesome entertainment and recreation are not wrong in themselves. But spending excessive time each week on such things as television, movies, videos, sports, secular reading, or hobbies may permit a treacherous heart to develop and pull us away from Jehovah.

    LOYAL TO JESUS?
    CONFIDENCE IN JESUS?

    SHORTLY take place?


    Q 17. Describe how Armageddon survivors will react when the resurrection takes place.

    17 There will come to pass the marvellous promise that God has made to restore the dead to life, for "there is going to be a resurrection of both
    the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Notice how emphatic that promise is: "There is going to be a resurrection"! There is no doubt about it, for Jehovah has given his word! Isaiah 26:19 promises: "Your dead ones will live .... Awake and cry out joyfully, you residents in the dust!
    ... The earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop in birth." Those words had an initial fulfillment with the restoration of God's ancient
    people to their homeland, giving us confidence in the coming literal fulfillment in the new world. What great joy there will be as resurrected ones are reunited with their loved ones! Yes, the end of Satan's world is near, and a new world of God's making is at hand. How vital it is that we remain vigilant!


    Restore dead--20 billion per WTS (but not those who died during the flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, Armageddon--7B non-jws including children)

    End of Satan's world is NEAR = 7 billion non-jws = something to hope for?

    END--NEAR--AT HAND



    Do You Recall?
    • What was the theme of Jesus' teaching?
    • How widespread is the Kingdom" preaching work now?
    • Why is it vital to be vigilant?
    • What do you find encouraging about the promise at Acts 24:15?


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    CLOSING COMMENTS


    The end is near, rapidly approaching, close, upon us, at hand although it has been 95 years since 1914. The 1914 generation was cancelled in
    1995 and the generation that were promised that they would live through the great tribulation are dying quickly.

    Should jws be happy to see 7 billion non-jws including children die? Does their preaching show that they are concerned about the eternal lives of
    these non-jws? How much real time do they spend talking to people? Do they highlight the kingdom or WT dogma?

    Next week, Jehovah Deserves Our United Praise (OT scripture, where's Jesus?)


    Love, Blondie

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    That Kingdom government is very shortly going to bring an end to Satan's world

    It's 'very shortly' now. Hmmmm.... Interesting. So, what IS the definition of 'very shortly'? Especially when there are still some prophecies left to be fulfilled. I've never received an answer to this question.

    For nearly a century now, horrendous events taking place around the world testify that we are living in the last days.

    'Nearly a century?' Uhhhh.... what about things like 'The Spanish Inquisition' (starting in 1478) ... or 'The Crusades' (the first one starting around 1095)? It's been many centuries... like around 21 of them!!

    Interesting use of the word 'VIGILANT'. Stick an 'E' on the end of that word and you get 'VIGILANTE'. It's a fine line... much like the line between sanity and insanity.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    AAAAAARGH! Oh, Blondie Blondie, how can you stand it Honey?

    I was angry within a couple of paragraphs.

    When the disciples asked "what will be the sign of your presence and the conclusion of the system of thengs?" Jesus said NOT to be deceived by wars pestilences earthquakes and faminesTHE END IS NOT YET.

    He spend the rest of the discourse showing how it would be sudden and unexpected, not predictable.

    When will the Witchtower stop twisting those verses on disasters and include the phrase before and after?

    Thanks again for doing my study by proxy!!

    HB

  • Marjorie
    Marjorie
    Did you know that the WTS taught until 1970 that the GT had started in 1914 and had a temporary interruption in 1918.

    Thank you for the information, Blondie. No, I didn't know, but now that I do, it only adds to the mountain of evidence that proves that the WTS is a false prophet and teacher.

  • Mary
    Mary
    But Christ's true followers have been vigilant and have discerned the real meaning of what has happened in the past century. Since 1925, Jehovah's Witnesses have recognized that World War I and the events that followed amount to sure evidence that Christ's presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914.Thus, the last days of this wicked system of things under Satan had started.

    This really caught my eye. Haven't Witnesses always taught that Charles Russell and his gang somehow "recognized" that Jesus had begun ruling in 1914? If they are now admitting that they didn't teach this prior to 1925, they how exactly did they "see with the eye of understanding" that He returned over a decade earlier?

    Apparently, the Writing Department can't even keep straight who understands this and who doesn't. I was always under the impression that only JWs believe that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914, but according to their own literature, everybody is apparently aware of this phenomenon:

    HOW SEEN BY EVERY EYE----"How, then, are we to understand the words of Revelation 1:7? There the apostle John writes: "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him." Here the Bible speaks of seeing, not with physical eyes, but in the sense of discerning or perceiving. Thus, when a person comprehends or understands a matter, he may say, ‘I see it.' The Bible, in fact, speaks of "the eyes of your understanding." (Ephesians 1:18, King James Version) So the expression "every eye will see him" means that everyone will then understand or recognize that Christ is present."------ pe chap. 17 p. 146 par. 13 Christ's Return-How Seen?

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    p 1. What was the theme of Jesus' teaching?

    Did Jesus say what his theme was? Or is it the "interpretation of men?"

    4. . Since 1925, Jehovah's Witnesses have recognized that World War I and the events that followed
    amount to sure evidence that Christ's presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914.
    Thus, the last days of this wicked system of things under Satan had started

    Why 1925, all of a sudden? Mary is right to question this...Previous comments have said that the early Bible Students discerned in advance the reign of Christ..Are they now admitting that the beliefs of CTR were so way off that it had to be a later date that they had the belief that is taught today.. Was 1925 the WT called "Birth of A Nation"? - I regret that this new computer has not got a cd rom yet...

    Quotes from Alan Greenspan "The Age of Turbulence" Does anyone have access to the full text? It would be nice to see what they omitted.

    The Great Tribulation...No mention of a "Cry of True Peace and Security" Have they dropped that now??

    P17 - acknowledged that Is.26 .19 "Had an initial fulfillment with the restoration of Gods ancient people to their homeland, giving us confidence in the coming literal fulfilment in the new world"

    Why should that be? The context is clear, it is only the WTS that applies it to the future.

    At today's meeting they seemed to enjoy talking about the mass slaughter of the so called "wicked"...The picture in the article had several minutes devoted to it, but I see that there is another thread on that....

    BTW - I beleive that the understanding of Rev 1.7 "Every eye shall see him " is to be that at the end, just as we are all destroyed at Armageddon, we shall see "The sign of the Son of man in heaven" and realise how wrong we were and why we are struck with a thunderbolt. Thus we can regret our sinful ways and rejection of the WTS...That is different to the invisible prescence since 1914..

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    4. . Since 1925, Jehovah's Witnesses have recognized that World War I and the events that followed
    amount to sure evidence that Christ's presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914.
    Thus, the last days of this wicked system of things under Satan had started

    There it is... This is how they will solve the Generation of 1914 problem. They will push it back to the Generation of 1925. It wasn't the Generation of 1914 who saw Jebus coming, it was the Generation of 1925 who Recognized Jebus coming.

    Hell, it only gives them an extra 11 years... but that's better than nothing!

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Sunday morning,a cup of coffee and a Thread by Blondie.....Not a bad way to start the day!..........Thanks Blondie!.........................................OUTLAW

  • lurk3r
    lurk3r

    Q1 - You really hit the nail on the head Blondie. I had an argument with a JW friend a while back about it being all about his "name".

    GREAT point!

    lurk3r

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Mary - you daffy thang!!

    There was a talk ( quoted on this board) where a Beth Hell heavy showed from the Bible that Christ comes Seven Times In Different Capacities.

    Revelation 1 is referring to him coming at the "manifestation of his presence" spoken of in Paul's letter to Timothy.

    Let's just ignore the fact that in the Olivet Discourse Christ spoke only of his coming and his arrival as one event that was unexpected and unforseen even by his annointed followers.

    I think they have been watching too much internet porn. (hence all the counsel - a diversionary tactic) All this "coming" is a ridiculous fantasy.

    So the expression "every eye will see him" means that everyone will then understand or recognize that Christ is present."------ Oh YEAH? Even all those who never heard the massage of the WT's idea of parousia??

    They said the "sign of the son of man" appearing in heaven would be terrifying celestial phenomena at his ... I dunno which coming, not discernment.

    Blues Brother - they are also changing the idea of invisible return in 1914 to some other date too. See the "Proclaimers Book" p136 - "Christ did not return to the vicinity of the earth (even invisibly) in 1914.

    HB

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