Children in Bulgaria - CANNOT BECOME MEMBERS

compound complex

Dear Friends,

On various fronts there has been much discussion on the children of Jehovah's Witnesses being pushed into premature baptism. The statement that The Society prepared for The European Commission on Human Rights, however, is quite revealing. Aware of the WT's differing stance on issues - from Malawi to Mexico, from Europe to the USA - you don't require a full-blown explanation as to the whys and wherefores. Please note the following statement from the WT, particularly the emphasized text:

"As regards the ALLEGED involvement of children, the applicant association [WTS] submits that children CANNOT BECOME MEMBERS of the association but only participate...In respect to the refusal of blood transfusions, the applicant association submits that there are NO religious sanctions for a Jehovah's Witness who CHOOSES TO ACCEPT a blood transfusion and that, therefore, the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against blood transfusions CANNOT AMOUNT TO A THREAT to public health." ECOHR, re: WT seeks legal recognition in Bulgaria, 1997, www.AJWRB.org [CC: emphasis]

Is there any way to discover the true status of children of JW parents in Bulgaria? That is, could it be possible that the WT articles on baptism in primarily Western countries would be altered to deal with legal issues in Bulgaria (as well as other European countries where the WT is having trouble acquiring legal recognition)?

Thank you,

Compound-Complex

V

I believe this recent articles show that child baptism is still very much in favour with the Society.

Awake! 2002 12/22 p. 20 Faith Under Trial in Slovakia

Among those who became Bible Students in the United States and returned to what had become Czechoslovakia was Michal Šalata. He returned to the nearby village of Secovce, where he once lived, and he helped organize the preaching work in Czechoslovakia. Brother Šalata took me with him on preaching tours. Then, in 1924, at the age of 13, I asked him to baptize me. Although Mother considered me rather young for such a serious step, I convinced her that it was my firm decision. So, that July during a one-day convention held near the Ondava River, I symbolized my dedication to Jehovah by baptism in the waters of that river.

Watchtower 2002 4/1 p. 26 Stay Awake, Move Ahead Courageously!

Despite the political unrest, our brothers in Ireland are actively sharing in the ministry, and they are respected for their neutral stand. Ireland has 115 congregations in 6 circuits, said Branch Committee member Peter Andrews. Brother Andrews told an experience about Liam, a ten-year-old boy who is fearless in witnessing in school. Liam placed My Book of Bible Stories, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses, with 25 of his classmates as well as with his teacher. Liam wanted to be baptized, but someone asked if he was too young. Liam replied: “It is not my age but my love for Jehovah that should be the determining factor. My baptism will show how much I love him.” Liam’s goal is to become a missionary.

Watchtower 1994 2/1 p. 22 We Have Sought First the Kingdom

My sister Sonia was born in 1928. She was only seven years old when she dedicated her life to Jehovah. Sonia says that even at that young age, pioneering had become her goal. In 1941, soon after symbolizing her dedication by water baptism, she realized that goal when she and Mother were assigned as pioneers to Caerphilly, South Wales.

garybuss

I must have misunderstood the topic. I can't become a member of the Watch Tower Society in the United States. The most I can achieve by being a publisher and being baptized is privileges of association. Privileges that can be taken away much easier than they were earned.

No one I personally know became a member of the Watch Tower Society just by earning rite of passage as a person approved for association and being known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The baptismal words say "in association" with the ghost directed organization.

Me thinks actual membership has to be bought and paid for on some level.

Sorry if I miss the point.

compound complex

Dear V and Gary,

Thanx for your replies and supplemental information. A big mistake letting my subscriptions expire. My question revolves around the specific words chosen for the application - meant to appease or put the government off the scent? I do get your point, however, Gary, about a paid membership. The following text concerns me, though, about the WTS saying 'you may think you have a relationship with Jehovah, but you've broken a rule, you're not sorry, so out you go!':

"A basis for APPROVED fellowship with Jehovah's Witnesses cannot rest merely on a belief in God, in the Bible, in Jesus Christ, and so forth... Simply professing to have such beliefs would NOT AUTHORIZE one to be known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the ENTIRE RANGE of the TRUE TEACHINGS of the Bible, including those Scriptural BELIEFS that are UNIQUE to Jehovah's Witnesses." WT 4/1/86, p.31 [CC: emphasis]

NOT AUTHORIZED?!? I guess what confuses me is the legalism. Serving God was never so difficult as presented and enforced by the GB and the legal department of the WTS. I really don't mean to sound harsh.

Thanx again for your input,

Compound-Complex

garybuss

Certainly the Watch Tower Corporation plays with words. Certainly they will be deceptive and self serving. This is their game. Just take a look at their litigation history.

compound complex

Thank you Gary, maybe it's no more than what you have said.

Yet......

The involvement of children is ALLEGED?

They can only PARTICIPATE?

They CANNOT BECOME MEMBERS?

Please help me get the point.........What does it mean to participate BUT not become a member? Aren't baptized persons of any age subject to ecclesiastical jurisdiction by the WT and her agents? Is it fruitless to try and understand WT legalese, particularly the overseas' version, where there is an ulterior motive? I would appreciate more insight into the matter. Thank you.

CoCo

compound complex

bttt

zagor

If kids can't get baptised anymore then that is awesome, someone should have put a stop to it a long time ago. I mean if children are not ready to go into marriage why should they be ready to take on resposibilitese of this magnitude?!?! That was something that bothered me even when I was a dub.
I remember once asking an elder "what is the differnce then between 'us' and say Catholic church, they baptise babies, all we do we wait few more years and do it then"... He just gave me cold look.

But that is awesome what is happening in Bulgaria, I don't know much about that tiny country but it seems they are far ahead of the rest of Europe when it comes to understanding of underlying issues when it comes to WTBS society.

Justahuman24

Actually, I know a JW who got baptized at 16 yrs of age in the USA. She was the one who introduced me into the WTS. We were both in HS. And I think her two older sisters got baptized at a younger age.

justahuman - but super nonetheless

Terry

Bottom line is that the organization known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is absolving itself of culpability in regard to death or injury regarding children vis a vis blood transfusion refusal.

The strategy is to make a kind of formally worded statement to that effect which is so ambiguous only THEY can properly say what it means (from moment to moment).

At a casual reading the statement says you can't decided to become a Member of their religion. Neither an adult nor a child can exercise that option of "joining" a becoming a member in good standing. What this seemingly implies is that ONLY Jehovah "knows" whom he has approved or accepted and that won't be plain to everybody else until the bodies are sorted after Armageddon!

Since you cannot become a member you cannot sue the Watchtower Society for forcing you (as a member) to comply with rules, regulations, rituals, ceremonies, observances or the refraining from medical treatments. Since you are, in effect, ON YOUR OWN; they are innocent of influencing you AS A MEMBER.

Isn't that shitty?

Children in Bulgaria - CANNOT BECOME MEMBERS

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