Got a e-mail from a friend who I confided in about my "apostate" thoughts

by ithinkisee 11 Replies latest members private

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  ithinkisee

  He was blown away but what I showed him regarding the Society's deception on a wide range of issues. He is someone who faded but is now trying to come back. He is having a hard time because of depression and stuff, so I thought showing him the stuff would free him from the guilt he feels by no living up to "Jehovah's supposed standards".

  It looks like he talked to someone about it (keeping me confidential), and this is what he had to say. (Ignore the homophobic joking in the first sentence ..heheh):

  Hi ***.

  I hope you're doing well. I see you recently joined *******.com....me too, just joined Saturday. Sent a request to you for to be my gay internet butt friend.

  I've listened to your song a couple more times recently. Now I understand the lyrics and where you're coming from. That song is sad. I've been there so many times myself, it's ridiculous. I relate completely. Listen, I'm not going to go into some long thing through email about the bible with you. I love you too much for that. Really. I know we haven't been close for many years, but the residual unity we shared in highschool lingers with me. You're a good guy.

  That said, I really think that if you have these questions about the society, and you truly want them answered, you should take them to a mature brother...someone whom you can trust. I'm trustworthy, but honestly, I know shit about what the society teaches and know relatively little about the bible...and...I'm a ** year-old possessed by the immaturity of a 19 yo. I'm not sure what your motivations were for researching the society's teachings in the first place...maybe subtle doubt...and maybe, because you don't really want to follow all the society's teachings. Maybe because there's some things in the "world" you'd like to taste, but feel guilty about doing while simutaneously attending meetings and witnessing. I honestly don't know. But, I'll tell you a little something about myself.

  I'm a selfish bastard. I'm also a very caring person, but selfish. I take a lot after my father. *shrugs* Whaddya expect, right? Anyway, a major part of what's kept me aloof from the society is the fact that I've wanted to live my life the way I want. I've loved tasting the short-lived pleasures of the flesh. But to be honest, for the most part...this has only brought me heartache and many a sleepless night. I've found many alternatives to what the society teaches, religious and otherwise, but they've never brought me peace of mind. Just a thought.

  Anyway, if you want to talk again, maybe this weekend, let me know.

  Regards,

  -ithinkisee
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  TheListener

  Interesting.

  It sounds like his reason for remaining apart from the witnesses is the desire for pleasure. It also sounds like he can't accept that the teachings might actually be wrong, so if you're doubting you must be craving pleasure as well.

  And since he's live his life for pleasure and freedom he can certainly tell you that it's not that great out there, so you should say in God's organization. He'll have enough fun for both of you.

  You evil person for researching the society's teachings. How dare you try to understand why you believe something!

  I hope you two keep talking. He may yet come around. He is probably tired of waking up each day expecting God to kill him at Armagedon.
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  Satanus

  It's true as he says, that he is like a 19 yr old, driven by emotions. It might be a big job to educate the guy. Sounds like he's looking for a home, a place to belong, an institution. The wt will give him that. What are the alternatives that could be offered?

  S
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  GetBusyLiving

  He sounds a lot like an old dub buddy of mine that was trying to convince me to continue on in the Org. He just could not fathom how somebody could conscientiously leave the witnesses. At first he thought that I had done something to be disfellowshipped for and that I just didn't want to go through the judicial comittee process. When I told him I didn't, he concluded that I just wanted to bang chicks and smoke weed. I tried explaining to him how the witnesses were wrong. He wouldn't listen to any of my "apostate reasoning". He thought I just needed to associate with more "spirtually minded ones". He just did not get it. It became completely pointless to talk to him, and its frustrating as all hell. Theres not much you can do for these type of guys.

  GBL
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  GetBusyLiving

  He sounds a lot like an old dub buddy of mine that was trying to convince me to continue on in the Org. He just could not fathom how somebody could conscientiously leave the witnesses. At first he thought that I had done something to be disfellowshipped for and that I just didn't want to go through the judicial comittee process. When I told him I didn't, he concluded that I just wanted to bang chicks and smoke weed. I tried explaining to him how the witnesses were wrong. He wouldn't listen to any of my "apostate reasoning". He thought I just needed to associate with more "spirtually minded ones". He just did not get it. It became completely pointless to talk to him, and its frustrating as all hell. Theres not much you can do for these type of guys.

  GBL
• 

  luna2

  I know that I didn't want to even question the "truth"...even when I was desperately unhappy with a lot of aspects of it. I did what they wanted me to by blaming myself. I was weak. I was lazy. I was immature.

  My good friend introduced doubt subtly. She'd bring up a topic like the child abuse scandal, and if I didn't respond, she wouldn't push it. Next time, she'd bring up the UN scandal, but again, didn't push or try to beat me over the head with it. What worked best (for me) was personal experiences. When she'd bring up a pioneer sister (once a good friend to both of us) who's become cold to any one not doing as much as she thought they should be, or the experiences of another friend who'd pioneered for four years straight out of highschool and found it empty and unfulfilling.

  I already had issues with various aspects of being a JW, so it was good to talk them through even though I wasn't ready to rub the sleep out of my eyes yet.

  It seemed sudden when it all became crystal clear (I finally started looking up info online), but I know that it took a year or so of discussing these things with her to prepare me to be enlightened.

  I'm slow, what can I say. LOL I hope that he is able to clear the cobwebs more quickly with your help.
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  ithinkisee

  This is how I responded:

  Yo I**n,

  I wrote a long long email, but I am not going to send it. It sounds like you had your questions answered. Perhaps we could get together like you mentioned and talk about it. I am not one to think that my opinion is the absolute truth by any means. (Though I do know some people that do .. ;-))

  For the record I have asked a few different elders (who don't even know each other) about many of my questions. The answers have ranged from "Well, that information is good, but I still believe it is Jehovah's Organization and he will further refine it with New Light." to "If you keep researching like that you'll be an apostate." to "Look, I am too old to be taking on things that big nowadays. I think the Society is going through some big changes, let's hope it's for the better." (I summarized their points of course)

  Other than the fact that I would like to get out from under the oppressive yoke of obligations the Society piles on (which you won?t experience until you start moving up in the organization) I have no selfish motive. Because yours was a selfish motive (supposedly) does not make my reasons a selfish motive. (I don?t mean that sentence to sound as harsh as it sounds ?)

  Interestingly that is the first attack the Society makes on those who question ? an ad hominem attack. They do this quite often in the literature. Fail to answer the arguments and instead attack the person.

  If you spoke to someone in

  Let?s get together. When is a good time?

  Hope all is well.

  [my name]

  PS: If this letter sounds short and terse, I am having a really busy day today. I don?t mean it to ?

  =============

  PPS: My short list of whining and bitching?

  The discrepancies with the Society (that I would like answers to) claim to be the sole channel are as follows. The evidence shows the Society:

  1. Altered and added to the scriptures with the New World Translation to fit their doctrine.

  2. Constantly misrepresent and lie about their origins. Keep JW?s from learning they are a billion-dollar book publishing company. Keeping pedophiles hidden in the congregation.

  3. Misrepresent their authority as God?s sole channel. (607, 1914, Governing Body)

  4. Misquote evolutionists, doctors, historians to support their own doctrines.(I?m not saying I believe evolution ? but the quotes out of context are deliberately deceptive.)

  5. Blame the individual if they have questions that are critical of the Organization.(i.e. ?How can you question such a LOVING Organization??)

  6. Keep the publishers in the congregation occupied with ?busy work? so they have no time to research the origins of the religion or sources of their quotes.

  7. The fear that if I simply choose not to believe I can?t simply fade away. Instead, I will be disfellowshipped and lose all my family and social structure.

  Coincidentally, in the book ?Combatting Mind Control? (a book that doesn?t mention JWs-but speaks about general cult-ish groups) the main identifying traits of a cult is (and I am NOT quoting these out of context):

  1. Link their control of behavior to ?special? spiritual insight of scripture.

  2. Information about the group?s history, purposes, doctrines, financial disclosures, methods of dealing with problems, counseling, training, and discipline for offenses are kept as confidential as possible.

  3. Constant reminding of authority of the leaders. Obedience to human representation is the most important lesson they teach.

  4. Important information which is available to the general public is withheld from members and potential members.

  5. Group leaders repress questions by conditioning their members to employ "thought-stopping" statements to drown out doubt, questions, anxiety or uncertainty, such as "I can't think about that." "How can you question (the leaders) after all they have done?" etc. The intention is to stop questions regarding the system or leaders.

  6. Groups have a stringent schedule for members. There is always something to do in these groups.

  7. The most powerful emotional control is phobia indoctrination. This can give the person a panic reaction at the very thought of leaving the group. It is almost impossible to conceive that there is any life outside the group. There is no physical gun held to their heads but the psychological gun is just as if not more powerful.

  Just match up my list (by number) with the list from the cult book. For the record, I made my list before I read that book. There are more points too, but I just made it short and brief for now.

  The book is on Amazon.com:

  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892813113
• 

  JW83

  Nice answer! I'm convinced
• 

  EvilForce

  Good answers.
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  Elsewhere

  I'm not sure what your motivations were for researching the society's teachings in the first place...maybe subtle doubt...and maybe, because you don't really want to follow all the society's teachings. Maybe because there's some things in the "world" you'd like to taste, but feel guilty about doing while simutaneously attending meetings and witnessing. I honestly don't know. But, I'll tell you a little something about myself.

  Translation: Anyone who questions or doubts the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society book publishing corporation is selfish, petty and the one to blame - NOT the WTS.

  He is still programmed and brain washed to NEVER doubt the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society book publishing corporation.

  Sell more!!! Sell more!!! Sell more!!!
  Do more!!! Do more!!! Do more!!!

  If you fail, it is YOUR fault.