Found a chink in my wife's armor about the WTBS

by ithinkisee 14 Replies latest members private

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  ithinkisee

  Somebody asked me if there was ANYTHING that bothered my wife about the WTBS. Now I am recalling something from a few months ago.

  We talked recently about baptism and I remarked (again trying to open a hole somewhere) about how it is amazing that the Society encourages kids to get baptized under the premise that "by their early teens they are able to know right and wrong and are able to make important decisions like this" (I'm paraphrasing the usual rhetoric, I'm not quoting). And then I pointed out how every baptism talk says "This is one of the most important decisions you will ever make in your life."

  Yet when it comes to marriage, all of a sudden that theory doesn't apply. those same teenagers are too young to date or think about marriage because "They aren't old enough to make important decisions and as teenagers make decisions based on emotion and not logic and reason." The wedding talks always claim regarding marriage, "This is one of the most important decisions of your life."

  So my question was, which is it? Are they too young to make a life-long decision or not? All along I am implying that it seems like an underhanded recruiting tactic to trap them with guilt later on down the road when they really DO want to make a decision about "the Truth".

  She ACTUALLY said, "Yeah, I never really understood that either."

  So I have a fair starting point I imagine.

  I am open to suggestions for where to go from here. Any thoughts?

  Thanks,

  ithinkisee
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  NewLight2

  That does sound like a good starting point. Keep bringing that point up and than try to discuss the baptismal vows and how they have changed from faith and commitment to Jehovah to commitment to 'God's spirit-directed organization'. Compare the difference in commiting one's life to Jehovah, 'the organization', and the marraige vows.
  
  NewLight2
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  Dragonlady76

  Of course they want to trap you at a young age, that way they get the best of your youth hitting the pavement handing out WTS propaganda.

  It's all manipulation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Amazing that somthing as sacred as marriage vows are not more highly regarded.
• 

  Poztate

  And then I pointed out how every baptism talk says "This is one of the most important decisions you will ever make in your life."

  They make this "important decision" as young as10. Then a few years later when puberty strikes and they start to really think for themselves they get into trouble for many reasons and are DF'ed or DA'ed.

  So now we suddenly have a 13 year old who no longer has any "friends" and is isolated because of the bizzare belief that it is a "protection" to be baptized early.

  I once had a discussion with an elder about this and remarked to him"They are NOT old enough to say YES and be baptized unless they are old enough to say NO and leave the "truth"?....He agreed in private with this statement.
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  ithinkisee

  Thanks newlight2,

  Yes, also her sister just turned 18 and she is having "problems" like they all do. Thankfully she was never baptized, and I think my wife is pretty grateful for that. There are numerous opportunities to discuss it right now.

  I will keep you all informed on the progress.

  Thanks

  -ithinkisee
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  Jez

  Being baptised at an early age can lead to being disfellowshipped at an early age and losing out on family. How tragic to make a life decision like baptism before one can even legal drink that can rip your family away from you. Why would an organization encourage baptism asap? (let her answer, don't answer for her) I would plant questions surrounding baptism, but not answer them.

  Also, how old was Jesus when he was baptised? Why was he not baptised earlier? Don't you think that such an obvious example of 'adult baptism' was to be followed? Why did he make such overkill on the age of HIS baptism. 32 is a far cry from 10-17! You can't even justify allowing a young person/adult to get baptised if one truly uses Jesus as an example.

  Once questions are in her head, they are there and must be dealt with. Also the questions asked during baptism about being obediant to the SOCIETY. Where is the biblical principle for that?

  Jez
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  ezekiel3

  Good show Ithink!

  Show her this article and get her reaction:

  *** g90 4/8 pp. 15-16 Am I Ready to Get Baptized? ***

  ?Am

  I Old Enough??

  As teenagers get older, they often feel that they have a right to enjoy certain privileges and responsibilities. They are quick to insist on driving the family car, to plead for permission to have after-school jobs, to want their own spending money. But when it comes to baptism, many youths excuse themselves as being too young or not ready for that responsibility. A youth named Andre observes: "A lot of youths wait until they are 17 or 18 to get baptized, which is a little old." Why? "Because long before that they?re old enough to make other decisions for themselves."

  Yes, the mere fact that you are a teenager is no excuse to ?limp upon two different opinions,? nor is it a valid reason to refrain from taking a stand as a Christian. (1 Kings 18:21) "Remember, now, your Grand Creator in the days of your young manhood," exhorts the Bible. (Ecclesiastes 12:1) The prophet Samuel was one who began serving Jehovah at a very tender age. (1 Samuel 3:1-18; 12:2) The psalmist David could likewise say: "You are my hope, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah, my confidence from my youth."?Psalm 71:5.

  Similarly, thousands of Christian youths today?including some preteen-agers?have proved themselves responsible enough to make a dedication to serve God. Granted, some teenagers lack seriousness and are too irresponsible and emotionally immature to make as far-reaching a decision as baptism. (Proverbs 22:15) But is this really true in your case? (Your parents will undoubtedly have much to say in this regard.) God hardly expects a teenager to have the maturity of a 40-year-old. He well knows that you are subject to "the desires incidental to youth." (2 Timothy 2:22) But if you are old enough to be reasonably serious and responsible, then you are most likely old enough to consider making a dedication. However, there are other questions you should ask yourself.

  How is this any different from infant baptism??
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  jeanniebeanz

  This whole thread just makes me sad. I was baptized very young and mostly to pacify my father who is still an elder. If I had been told what the ramifications would be to changing my mind, NOT ABOUT GOD, but about the JW's, I would *never* have done it. My brother who just faded and did all his living away from the witnesses is still able to enjoy the family even tho they full well know what he has been up to over the years, and still considers himself a witness at heart. I made one mistake, confessed it and lost everyone over the shunning doctrine of the JW's. He raised holy hell for years, but since he stayed off the radar the family still welcomes him, again knowing full well what he's been up to.

  The rest of my brothers and sisters have been either inactive, or voiced their *disbelief* of the JW doctrines within the family and generally just do enough to keep from being kicked out. And yet THEY don't talk to ME. For what? Leaving like they'd like to? Hypocrites!

  It is such an incredible injustice, and such a legalistic hairsplitting bunch of crap. I sure hope that your wife can see how dangerous it is to get involved with these people, and especially how dangerous it is to get baptized by them. They view it as a legal contract between the person being baptized and the WTS, and do not believe that you are baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as is prescribed in the bible because they don't even believe that Christ is our mediator, they are!

  Good luck. I sure hope you are able to use this baptism issue to get through!

  Jeannie
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  SixofNine

  Locking the thread: # Inciting hatred on the basis of race, religion, gender, nationality or sexuality or other personal characteristic.
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  Crumpet

  jeanie

  It makes me sad too. I was baptised in 1988 when I was 13 - mainly because I hoped my parents would loosen the leash a little and let me hang out with the older pioneers. This didnt happen at all and I ended up getting disfellowshipped at 16 all because I was admitted to everything. I could have just lied and got away with it, but I didnt know any better. So at 16 I ended up living in a squalid attic room on £50 a week to cover rent, food and clothes.

  There should be a whole section in the Organisation book questions covering whether the candidate really understands what will happen to them if they go off the rails - that it will mean losing your entire family forever. Which is what has happened to me. I have been reinstated twice and am on my third disfellowshipping now. And the pain of missing my parents and sisters, of not being able to attend my grandparents funerals, my cousins weddings - sometimes not even hearing about such things until months after the event is indescribable. Had I fully understood the possible repercussions, I and no doubt thousands of others would never have been baptised.

  nina x