Shifting number of deaths during the holocaust ...

by ithinkisee 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    Everytime I start poking around I find something new . . .

    I know this is not new info for most of you - but I just saw this and said, "What the F*CK!" out loud.

    It just never ceases to amaze me!

    From Observer.org

    During the Nazi regime from 1933-1945 in Germany, 635 Jehovah?s Witnesses actually lost their lives. The WTBTS increased the numbers in 1950 to 1000, in 1951 to 2000, in 1964 to 4000 . In the 1974 yearbook they came clean and the number was 635, but in 1989 the numbers increased again to 2000.

    *** w50 12/15 500 Jehovah's Witnesses Again Endure Totalitarian Hate ***
    Already during the Hitler regime about 1,000 Jehovah?s witnesses were executed as traitors, because they not only refused to serve in the war but openly opposed Hitler?s authority. Another 1,000 of Jehovah?s witnesses died in prisons and concentration camps,

    *** w51 2/15 105-6 An Open Answer to "The Vindicator" ***
    That is why during the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933 to 1945 Jehovah?s witnesses in that land refused to heil Hitler! as their Fuehrer or Leader, and went to concentration camps and prisons, where 2,000 died cruel deaths, and of the 8,000 that came out alive, 2,000 were invalided for the rest of their lives.

    *** w64 1/1 13 They Listened to an Angel ***
    19 Hitler, a Roman Catholic, the arm of his church in Germany, forbade Jehovah?s witnesses to preach the kingdom of God, and these modern-day Christians had to say to Hitler?s Gestapo police: ?Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, judge for yourselves.? They kept preaching even though 10,000 of them were put in concentration camps and over 4,000 died there. The rest nearly starved to death. The war?s end aided their survival.

    *** yb74 212 Germany (Part One) ***
    But despite the hard conditions, how those who worshiped Jehovah rejoiced! They had been privileged to prove their integrity to the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. During Hitler?s rule 1,687 of them had lost their jobs, 284 their businesses, 735 their homes and 457 were not allowed to carry on their trade. In 129 cases their property had been confiscated, 826 pensioners had been refused their pensions and 329 others had suffered other personal loss. There were 860 children who had been taken away from their parents. In 30 cases marriages had been dissolved due to pressure by political officials, and in 108 cases divorces had been granted when requested by mates opposed to the truth. A total of 6,019 had been arrested, several two, three or even more times, so that, all together, 8,917 arrests were registered. All together they had
    been sentenced to serve 13,924 years and two months in prison, two and a quarter times as long as the period since Adam?s creation. A total of 2,000 brothers and sisters had been ut into concentration camps, where they had spent 8,078 years and six months, an average of four years. A total of 635 had died in prison, 253 had been sentenced to death and 203 of these had actually been executed. What a record of integrity!

    *** w89 1/1 21 "To Jehovah Belongs the Battle" ***
    13 An outstanding modern example of bullying by Goliathlike political rulerships took place in Hitler?s Germany. The mainline religions, both Catholic and Protestant, compromised woefully in paying homage to Nazism, idolizing the führer, saluting his swastika flag, and blessing his troops as they sallied forth to slaughter their fellow believers in neighboring nations. So-called Christians of all faiths?but not Jehovah?s Witnesses?were caught up in the patriotic fervor. The book Mothers in the Fatherland reported: ?[Jehovah?s Witnesses] were sent to concentration camps, a thousand of them were executed, and another thousand died between 1933 and 1945. . . . Catholics and Protestants heard their clergy urge them to cooperate with Hitler. If they resisted, they did so against orders from both church and state.? How bloodguilty both Church
    and State became!?Jeremiah 2:34.

  • kls
    kls

    My that is very interesting ,,,,,,,again they can't even get a lie or a number right.

    When it comes to the wt,,,,,,,seek and ye shall find,,,,,nothing but BS

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Number manipulation is part of a cultish religion's tactics.

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli
  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    with everyone else fiddling the numbers of people killed in the holocaust, the WTS didnt want to feel left out.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Caught with their pants down again!

    ***

    w82 7/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    In

    The Watchtower of April 15, 1982, page 26, paragraph 19, it states that in the persecution of Jehovah?s Witnesses at Gbarnga, Liberia, in March 1963, a few compromised but the majority maintained their integrity. However, the Yearbook for 1977 states that the majority compromised their faith. Why this discrepancy?

    The statement in The Watchtower for April 15, 1982, is in error. Actually, according to the Yearbook of 1977, pages 176 and 178, there were about 100 Liberian Witnesses who went through the Gbarnga persecution maintaining integrity, while approximately 200 compromised their faith.

    Of course, if we were to take the combined, worldwide picture of the persecution of Jehovah?s Witnesses, it will certainly be established beyond doubt that by far the great majority have proved faithful under persecution, and only a relatively small minority have compromised their faith.

  • avishai
    avishai
    with everyone else fiddling the numbers of people killed in the holocaust, the WTS didnt want to feel left out.

    Care to elaborate?

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    actually I think the statement is pretty straightforward. Everyone from religious organizations to revisionists have played with the numbers to their own ends. I've seen variations in total numbers killed from a few thousand to 8-9 million. It's not particularly surprising that special interest groups would "play with" the figures. Especially considering the secrecy and lack of documentation of the murders that happened beyond the barbed-wire.

    Plus there can be wide variance of statistics depending on interpretation. How many died of privation, disease, medical experimentation, or direct execution.

    I think the fact that the WTS, who evidently have solid numbers AND KNEW IT, yet still published misleading information (4000 killed???) is reprehensible. Still, even one religious martyr at the hands of the Nazis was too many, regardless of how ridiculous the beliefs of the martyr.

  • avishai
    avishai

    Well, and then you have those killed OUTSIDE of camps for their beliefs, gypsy, jew, JW, etc. We tend to forget about them, because the camps were so awful, but their were large scale massacres of Jews and gypsies in their communities, for instance. This may have happened with JW's as well.

    As much as the WTS pisses me off, I'm not going to minimize thier suffering at the hand's of the Nazi's. Getting killed for your religious beliefs sucks, period.

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    avi,

    a little seach on google will find lots of people on both sides of the fence, suggesting different figures for deaths to support all their agendas.

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    It always struck me as somehow noble, those who were killed in WW2 at the hands of Nazi soldiers. It always seemed to me that their deaths had some meaning, they had some ideals of religious beliefs that encompassed resistance of the Nazi movement.

    Contrast that with the numbers that were killed or brutalized at the hands of Malawi militants because a religious organization told them not to buy a political party card. Where's the nobility in that? They weren't standing up for bible principles, they weren't resisting an evil war machine for righteousness sake, they were misled into believing that allegiance to a publishing company was loyalty to God. Sickening. Anyone want to repost the #s of misled ones who were killed there? I wonder how it compares?

    Maybe there isn't a significant difference between the two examples... but to me, it just feels different. I have admiration for those who died in the camps, even if I don't agree with their cause. I have nothing but pity for those who died over political nitpicking in Malawi.

    Odrade

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