Dedication AND Baptism?

by SixofNine 6 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  I posted this here a long time ago . Didn't get much reply, but then again, there weren't many of us posting at the time.

  Dedication and Baptism. In the org., the two are inextricably linked. May as well be one word, 'dedicationandbaptism'.

  Why?

  When I asked this about 8 months ago or so, I was extremely interested in the Biblical aspects of the answer. I still am, but it is mostly just curiousity now. I'd love to know your thoughts on where the "dedication" part of dedicationandbaptism came to us from.
• 

  jayhawk1

  As explained to me:
  You must dedicate your life to Jehovah in prayer. Before you talk to the Elders requesting baptism. Then you go over the questions they ask. Then you can be baptised. They even asked me before the questions started, if I said a prayer to Jehovah about dedicating my life to Jehovah. Therefore, Dedication and Baptism. Does this help answer your question? If not, sorry I couldn't help you.

  "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
• 

  Maximus

  I owe you one.

  The teaching essentially is that baptism is the outward symbol of one's inner dedication. Early on, the term dedication was not used in this way. One was "consecrated." That suggests somebody has done something to you. Since other sheep have no Mediator, who can "consecrate" OS in a theological sense?

  New light flashed forth from the temple, and OS now first "dedicated" themselves hopefully before baptism. Some old baptism talks actually suggested that 'if you haven't done it before this moment, do it now or on the way to the pool.'

  Baptism is a fixed ritual, dedication by definition is more nebulous. That's simplistic, but it might help you differentiate the two.

  Max
• 

  SixofNine

  hmmmmmmmm?????

  I don't guess I have ever had any trouble differentiating the two, except to the extent that, as I said in my first post, they are presented by the WTS as part and parcel of the same thing; ie. "dedicationandbaptism". Or did my childish mind just invent that while growing up a witness? What was your perception?

  The idea that at one point, "dedication" was not so connected to baptism, instead "concecrated" was, makes some sense to me. But of course, those are two completly seperate concepts. The simple act of baptism could, in effect, cause someone to be a "concecrated one". Dedication of course, will make it all more personal, and therefore is a very "common sense" doctrine, I just can't see where it has any real biblical support, or even origin, for that matter.

  When this question hit me a few months ago, I went looking for scriptural support. I didn't find any. Have I missed something?

  ps. Max, you continue making dents, folding, spindling and mutilating, and I will REALLY owe you one. And it won't be in the common, "thanks buddy" sense of the term, either. (especially that "spindling" part, I'm particularly fond of the idea of the pupateers being "spindled" )
• 

  peaceloveharmony

  six

  you said:
  

  they are presented by the WTS as part and parcel of the same thing; ie. "dedicationandbaptism". Or did my childish mind just invent that while growing up a witness? What was your perception?

  my perception also, dedication=baptism and baptism=dedication to me growing up as a witness.

  I went looking for scriptural support. I didn't find any. Have I missed something?

  sorry buddy, can't help ya out with the scriptural support....lol, i'm bible impaired

  love
  harmony

  "If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
  ..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)
• 

  bigboi

  hey Six:

  I once remember reading somewhere that the Society reasoned we follow Jeus' example in presenting ourselves publicly before Jehovah for baptism. They reason that Jesus was already dedicated to Jehovah by his birth into a nation already dedicated to God. However, he now was presenting himself to do the work that God wanted him to do so now he was baptised as a public show of a dedication to do God's will for him That's supposed one of the main purposes for baptism. It goes in line with a scipture in one of Peter's letters. There he states that baptism isn't for the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but for a call to God for a good conscience. So a person can already be living a life in dedication to God, but it is good to show that publicly by submitting to water baptism. I guess because that's what Jesus did.

  ONE....

  bigboi

  "it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia
• 

  teejay

  Yo, Six,

  I know that growing up a dub has 'shaped' your thinking in unique ways, as it has mine. Here's my take on this...

  "Dedication" is (or, rather, "should be") personal in the extreme. In real terms, if it is to be believed, dedication is THE most personal experience a human being will (or can) ever have... a communion with our Maker, our true Origin or Parent.

  The WTS has never been interested in true spirituality. They are mainly interested in appearance:

  Did you get baptized?

  When did you get baptized?

  Is your father an elder?

  Does your mother pioneer?

  Who studied with you?

  How many hours did you turn in last month?

  How about the six months previous to that?

  When you gave your last talk, did your jacket and pants match?

  Did you slip the CO a C-note when he came around the last time?

  Their concerns are irrelevant. They are pointless to the far end of the spectrum. "Dedication" and "dedicationandbaptism" are two totally different concepts.

  holla,
  todd