No sunday school for witnesses

by freedom96 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    I have had the opportunity to visit a few non-denominational churches since I have left the witnesses. I have talked to people who attend other ones, and obviously find great differences between those and witnesses.

    A huge mistake, among many of course, in my opinion, is that there is no programs for kids.

    An infant is expected to make all the meetings. A toddler is expected to go, and sit still. A few more years, and the child is expected to follow along on subjects that make our adult eyes glaze over. Talks are given talking about diciplining your children so they sit still and pay attention. For God's sake, it is bad enough when we had to go ourselves, let alone the kids pay attention. And for me, I was there as a kid, then grown up with a kid.

    Why doesn't the WTS have programs for kids?

    For example, this last church I went to had the following:

    There was a regular service, with a live band at the beginning, and then about a 45 minute interesting sermon. Anyone is welcome, regardless of age.

    At the same facility, were seperate classrooms for the following 1st and 2nd grade, 3rd and 4th, 5th and 6th, 7th and 8th, and high school. All were designed for that specific age group. All were religious based games or discussions, depending of course on age. All were interesting, and all were very productive in their results.

    What on earth is wrong with some program like that?

    There was even more activities for the youth. Sleep overs, camps, trips, dances, social events. All sponsered and run by the church. It became a encouraging event, for all ages.

    I don't care what the WTS does, for I believe their doctrines to be wrong. But for those still in, would not that not make a better enviorment? It would have made life as a kid, and those who have kids, much more enjoyable. The fact is, that the WTS does absolutely nothing to encourage kids, or have programs. No youth ministries, no nothing.

    Why must they be sooooooo different that they can't see what could help them out? I just feel bad for those who are currently going through it, and those of us who had to endure.

    When we really think about it, the WTS program as a whole, is not conducive to creating a loving enviorment, where kids and parents are happy, and learning, and having fun at the same time. When one goes to the Kingdom Hall, everyone participates in the same mind dulling crap every time, over and over and over and over and over.

    If they wanted to keep their numbers up, they ought to change the way they do things. But they are so stubborn, and lose numbers because of the way they are.

  • blondie
    blondie

    It was tried and cancelled.

    *** jv 244-6 16 Meetings for Worship, Instruction, and Encouragement ***


    Where Young Ones Fit In

    During the early years, the publications and the meetings of the Bible Students were not particularly geared to young people. They could attend the meetings, and some of them did so and listened eagerly. But there was no special effort to involve them in what took place. Why not?

    The understanding of the brothers at that time was that only a very short time was left until all the members of Christs bride would be united with him in heavenly glory. The Watch Tower, in 1883, explained: "We who are in training for the high calling cannot turn aside from the special work of this agethe work of preparing the Bride, the Lambs wife. The Bride is to make herself ready; and just at the present moment, when the last touches of adornment are being put on preparatory to the wedding, every members service is required in this all-important, present work."

    Parents were strongly urged to shoulder their own God-given responsibility to care for the spiritual instruction of their children. Separate Sunday schools for youths were not encouraged. It was obvious that Christendoms use of Sunday schools had done much harm. Parents who sent their children to such schools often took the view that this arrangement relieved them of the responsibility to give religious instruction to their children. The children, in turn, because they were not looking to their parents as a primary source of instruction about God, were not motivated to honor their parents and obey them as they should.

    However, from 1892 to 1927, the Watch Tower did set aside space for comment on the text featured in the "International Sunday School Lessons," which were then popular in many Protestant churches. These texts were for many years selected by F. N. Peloubet, a Congregational clergyman, and his assistants. The Watch Tower discussed these texts from the standpoint of the Bible Students advanced understanding of the Scriptures, free from the creeds of Christendom. It was hoped that in this way the Watch Tower would find its way into some of the churches, that the truth would thus be presented, and that some church members would accept it. Of course, the difference was evident, and this angered the Protestant clergy.

    The year 1918 came, and the remnant, or remaining ones of the anointed, were still on the earthly scene. The number of children at their meetings had also greatly increased. Often the youngsters had simply been allowed to play while their parents studied. Yet, young people, too, needed to learn to "seek righteousness, seek meekness," if they would be "hid in the day of the LORDs anger." (Zeph. 2:3, KJ) So, in 1918 the Society encouraged the congregations to arrange for a juvenile class for children from 8 to 15 years of age. In some places there were even primary classes for those too young to attend the juvenile class. At the same time, parental responsibility toward the children was again emphasized.

    This led to other developments. The Golden Age, in 1920, carried a feature entitled "Juvenile Bible Study," with questions accompanied by Scripture citations in which the answers could be found. That same year, The Golden Age ABC was published; it was an illustrated booklet for use by parents in teaching basic Bible truths and Christian qualities to their youngsters. A book entitled The Way to Paradise, written by W. E. Van Amburgh, followed in 1924. It was adapted to "intermediate students of the Bible." For a time it was used at the meetings for younger ones. Additionally, in America, "Junior Witnesses" had their own arrangements for field service. In Switzerland a youth group formed an association called "Jehovahs Youth," for those between 13 and 25 years of age. They had their own secretarys office in Berne, and a special magazine, Jehovahs Youth, was edited and printed on the Societys presses there. These youths had their own meetings and even put on Bible dramas, as they did in the Volkshaus in Zurich for an audience of 1,500.

    What was taking place, however, was that an organization was developing within the organization of Jehovahs servants. This would not contribute to unity, and it was discontinued in 1936. In April 1938, during a visit to Australia, J. F. Rutherford, the Societys president, found that a class for children was being held apart from the convention for adults. He immediately arranged for all the children to be brought into the main convention, which was greatly to their benefit.

    In that same year, The Watchtower reviewed the entire matter of separate classes for young folks in the congregation. That study again emphasized the fact that parents are responsible to instruct their own children. (Eph. 6:4; compare Deuteronomy 4:9, 10; Jeremiah 35:6-10.) It also showed that the Bible provides no precedent for segregating young ones by means of junior classes. Instead, they were to be present with their parents to hear Gods Word. (Deut. 31:12, 13; Josh. 8:34, 35) When further explanation of study material was needed, this could be given by the parents at home. Furthermore, the articles pointed out that arrangements for such separate classes were actually detracting from the house-to-house preaching of the good news. How so? Because the teachers were staying out of the field service to prepare for these classes and to conduct them. So, all separate classes for youths were discontinued.

    Right down to the present, it remains the custom among Jehovahs Witnesses for the entire family to attend congregation meetings together. Children are helped by their parents to prepare so that they can participate in appropriate ways. Additionally, a fine array of publications has been provided for parents to use in giving young folks instruction at home. Among these have been the books Children, in 1941; Listening to the Great Teacher, in 1971; Your YouthGetting the Best Out Of It, in 1976; My Book of Bible Stories, in 1978; and Questions Young People AskAnswers That Work, in 1989.

    *** yb87 139-40 Switzerland and Liechtenstein ***


    OUR GOD IS NOT A GOD OF DISORDER

    This is what Erwin Saner in Basel used to say, pointing to the clock, whenever a child would arrive late for the congregations Sunday school.1 Cor. 14:33.

    Sunday school? Yes, indeed. For a time we had a separate youth group for those from 13 to 25 years of age, and a Sunday school for younger ones, based on the publication The Way to Paradise (edited in 1924 and "Dedicated to Youth for the Study in the Holy Scriptures" by W. E. Van Amburgh). Adult members of the congregations took turns instructing the children on Sunday mornings. Ulrich Engler from Thalwil explained: "We parents went preaching on Sundays, and it was not the custom at that time to take the children along, neither would we take them to meetings in the evening. So when a youth group was formed in Zurich, we were glad that the children from the Thalwil Congregation were also invited."

    The association "Jehovahs Youth" even had its own secretarys office in Bern. A special magazine named Jehovahs Youth was edited there and printed on the Societys presses. The preface to the first issue was written by Brother Rutherford. These youths conducted meetings and took an active part in the witness work. They also performed Bible dramas at bigger gatherings organized for the young ones. However, this was really an organization within the organization. The Bible shows that in ancient Israel the provision that Jehovah made was for adults and children to assemble together for instruction. (Deut. 31:12) When we came to appreciate this more fully, these special arrangements for youths were dissolved. This was done in 1936 at the time of Brother Rutherfords visit.

  • HappyHeathen
    HappyHeathen

    Here's the way I see it:

    1. The GB has always consisted of old men who live in their own little world and are completely out of touch with the emotional needs of the R&F. Most of them are single or married without children. They have no real concept of families at all, though the WT gives lip service to "family values." In addition, I think they actually resent the fact that children are born into the borg to begin with since they have published so many articles advising people to remain single and devote their lives to magazine selling. So they are not going to make any special concessions to people who are raising families.

    2. They are always going to do the exact opposite of what other religions do, even if it's like cutting off their noses to spite their faces. A program tailored for children is EXACTLY what they need because they lose teenagers right and left who are bored out of their skulls from the mind-numbing material and lack of activities suited for their age group. But they will never admit they're wrong about this. NEVER!

    The GB is like a bunch of old pointy-eared Mr. Spocks who have no idea of what it's like to let go and be human. Idiots!

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    I do believe that we as a people have to adapt ourselves, and change with the times. The fact is, that there are no programs designed for children. Not at the Hall, not afterwards. If the WTS is so concerned about bad association outside the influence of the congregation, then why do they not make provisions for that. Kids cannot go to the prom, why not have activities for them that will not make them feel so isolated?

    Ultimately, I feel that they are doing themselves a disservice, and hurting themselves in the long run.

  • blondie
    blondie

    I think it is just a matter of manpower. Back in the olden days there were usually on 3 servants, congregation, assistant congregation, and field/bible. With fewer resources it would be a matter of delegating the responsibility to the parents. Unfortunately, many parents do not follow through. I could never understand why JWs send their children off to be taught by strangers and separate from adults in the secular school setting, but won't do it at the KH. Many churches have separate classes for children and then have sessions for the whole family as well. It wasn't until the Listening to the Great Teacher book came out that there was finally something special children not just a book for the uneducated adapted for children.

    The WTS has reaped what they have sown. In most congregations, 1 out 10 young persons may stay in the organization past late teens. With few coming in as adults and the young people not staying, little increase is seen today.

    I see the spectre of control in this as well.

    Blondie who lived through it all

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    This is another tragic miscalculation by ``The Faithful and Discreet Slave.'' Add it to the pile.

    These gerontocrats have long forgotten what it is to be young, brimming with energy and idealsim. In fact, Watchtower policy does exactly the opposite: progressive-thinking elders have attempted initiatives in getting the teens interacting spiritually and socially, and all they've gotten for their trouble is the back of Brooklyn's iron hand. In fact, by warning the kids to ``watch their associations'' even inside the precincts of the Kingdom Hall and to look askance at the ``spiritually weak and bad associations'' among them'' all they do is foster self-righteousness and paranoia.

    And what of those kids that the local Pharisees deem to be ``weak'' and ``bad associations?'' Who is there to uplift and encourage them by force of example? What is there in place to ``snatch them out of the fire'' and redirect them? How does it help if they're treated like lepers?

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Freedom 96: Where did you go to church? E-mail me if you want. The church we go to now, as exactly those sorts of progams for kids. My wife and I work in the nursery caring for children under six months. Some of the larger programs (game nights, roller skating parties, concerts) are seen as community outreach. Seeing that church can be fun makes going to it a lot more interesting.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Perhaps it's BEST they don't have Sunday school for kids. Why?

    Pedophiles exist in some of these places. Since the society has made a scriptural loophole for these bastards......kingdom halls are better off how they are.........

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    A PS in response to what Gumby said. In order to work in any of the children's programs at our chruch you have to pass a background check, and their are strict (and strictly enforced)rules about not being alone with any of the children.

  • jws
    jws

    Never knew about the seperation of the youth back in the early part of the 20th century. Interesting...

    Didn't Jesus talk to the young ones? Even in the Society's literature, it makes it sound as if Jesus was among a group of kids with no (or few) parents. So why would seperate teaching be bad? Isn't that Jesus' example?

    I've often wondered about this when I was a JW. It was one lesson for all. Whether it was deep (like trying to tie some obscure scripture to some obscure event in JW history) or light concepts like not stealing. And whether we're talking kids vs. adults or adults vs. adults, all people are at different levels.

    Why not have seperations? In school, my coursework got harder as I progressed. I learned my ABC's in kindergarten. They didn't need to reteach it to me in high school. Yet I'd go to the Kingdom Hall and we'd cover the elementary crap all over again. I don't know how many times we went through the Live Forever book. It all made it all the more boring.

    I don't know why they do what they do. I think a lot of it was dumbed-down and is more palatable for kids now. Just look at the number of pictures nowadays compared to the early days. Even though you have the "deep" articles, you also have the simplistic ones. I didn't realize it at the time, but all of this repetition was brainwashing.

    And, whether you think it's good or bad, seperating people would probably create divisions. Somebody would be in the "advanced" class and think so much of himself and be more pompous than JWs already are and others would no-doubt look up to them (like they do now when somebody shows they've done any outside research). Somebody in the beginner class would feel intimidated.

    Makes me wonder why the same reasoning that did away with this type of thing still allows status distinctions like "pioneers" and pioneer school, or ministerial servants.

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