Jehovah's Witnesses goal of a Utopian World

by kenpodragon 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    When ever I visit with relatives that are still Witnesses, I tend to hear one comment more then others. That being, "we would really love to see your face in Paradise with us." It might not always be in those exact words, but it is along the same thought. That thought being, "unless you change your ways, you will not be in the paradise earth that Jehovah has promised." They do not say this to comfort me, or to encourage me, no they say this to scare me and make me feel bad enough to walk into a Kingdom Hall again. Does the idea of a Paradise earth sound bad though?

    In all honestly, I spent a lot of my day dreaming as a Witness, thinking about the "Paradise Earth" we preached about. When times were rough, and did not look the way I wanted ... my mind would travel to this world. I would think of the societies views on it ....

    "No war, no hate, no anger, no pain, and no death. People all working in a paradise world of gardens of beautiful nature. There would be cascading waterfalls, and beautiful people all living in joy and happiness"

    ... what I find interesting in this view now. Is that this is the same view of Utopia, as seen in Greek mythology.

    Utopia : An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects

    The idea that there is some place or time in the future when all will be better. Perhaps some Christians see this in heaven, whereas Witnesses pictured it here on earth. They took on the views of the Greeks, that that place would be perfect in all respects. It would be full of love and correctness of every kind and characteristics. So to spend the day, or to work your way out of hard times with a positive thought, would seem like a wonder thought, right?

    Well if you have ever studied Greek, you will know that often the definition of the word, is not the whole meaning. Sometimes they show a word to mean something, and in the meaning of the word, combined with the meaning, is the irony. For you see "Utopia" actual means "no place." Thus the meaning, "a perfect world is no where, or unattainable."

    So when I am with my Witness relatives and they make a comment like "we would love to see you in Paradise." My favorite thing to say to them is, "yes, that does sound like a Utopian world ... doesn't it" Which in their mind sounds like "Yes, that sounds like a great and wonderful world ... doesn't it " In reality though, I am saying. "That does sound like a place of fiction that is no where ... doesn't it." Perhaps it is a little thought that means something to me, and gets them to thinking they have me thinking about Jehovah again. In both cases, they are right ... just not the thoughts they think I am having.

    It is nice to have a positive view of the future. I have one myself, but dwelling on a thought that is not going to happen ... is a waste of time. The world is the paradise you make it now, and waiting for someone to fix it, makes no sense. Do not waste your time thinking all will get better tomorrow, make it better today. When people use this thought to work with your mind, think next time what they are really saying.

    Utopia : "No place"

    ... and think "do you want to go no where with them, or some where with reality?"

    Just my thought

    Edited by - kenpodragon on 28 September 2002 19:25:59

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    What is sad is that the paradise is all that witnesses have to look forward to. I agree that one must make the most of the time we have here. If life sucks for someone, it is up to them to make the change, and make it better for themselves. I am so tired of people complaining how bad their life is, but do nothing to fix it. Life is what we make it here, and now. Too bad most witnesses spend so much of their time going to meetings, out in service, etc, they have no time to take care of their own lives, and create happiness within it.

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    It all defies analysis a bit doesnt it? The utopian notion fails under scrutiny. The utopian world is a place without conflict/ anger. How can this be achieved when it is populated by millions of individuals with different thoughts and opinions? The only way is to make them all united in "one manner of thought". Then there can be no conflict. Thus those who dont fit into the pattern of thought are in line for extermination, or reeducation. So therte comes to be an end over means reasonong there and Hitlers extermination of Jews becomes "necessary" to achieve perfection. With regard to the Witness 1000 year "paradise" one wonders how they can all come, over the 1000 years, to attain this one manner of thinking, yet the vast majority of them be misled at the end of 1000 years when Satan is released from the pit. The logic of the whole thing falls apart again. But then, the scripture does say that "The things of God are foolishness to the rational mind"

  • obi1a57
    obi1a57

    How could you be such fools to doubt in Jehovah. he is a GOd that promises us perfection and all we can do is doubt that it is false or not the best thig for us. he created us to live forever all signs point to that. on top of that the bible says that in paradise all that was of past memories will never rise up to the heart again, in other words we will not remember life in this forsaken system of things. we will be perfect in every aspect. this perfection means an new way of life. that way of life is the promised utopia in the coming paradise. the only way we will be ther is if we see Jehovah as a real person and get to know him. that must be the reason we serve him, not to live forever but because we love him the paradise is just a bonus of loving Jehovah. so "wasting" our time in service and the meetings is well worth it. that is the way life should trully be. without Jehovah we lack true happiness. so in our service we show how bad we want this corrupt system of things to end and prove to everyone that we expect something better. so we must love Jehovah and we only do that as i said before by seeing him as a real person. so we must ask ourselves "so i really want to be in paradise" and if so "am i taking the necessary steps to be there" only then will we find out if we are serving jehovah for the right reasons. or serving him at all.

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    You forgot to end that with ... "April fools!!!" ... isn't that the last verse in the Bible anyway? LOL

    My thought

    Dragon

  • Ephanyminitas
    Ephanyminitas

    Ha. This reminds me of how I thought about paradise when I was young. I thought that perfection was absolute. So I wondered, if a perfect man attempts to shoot a basketball into a goal, he will of course succeed at what he was trying to do. But if there's a defender trying to block that shot, he should succeed too, because he too is perfect. Both could not be successful! Would the paradox cause all of existence to collapse upon itself? Of course, being a good Witness youth, I simply decided to Wait on Jehovah to work it out.

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    Great illustration to prove the point.

    Take Care

    Dragon

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother
    "dwelling on a thought that is not going to happen ... is a waste of time. "

    I could not say better myself , Dragon . We have all wasted time by picturing ourselves in a lovely New World - but it is a lie, a myth . I like your parallel to the ancient Greeks , since WT are so aggresive to other religions that have taken beliefs from such sources.

    It is really worse than a waste of time. It coases people to allow precious years to slip past with things not put right "Just wait on Jehovah!"

    People put up with a bad marriage , a low income , social wrongs - in the confident belief that it will be all right in the end, but it won't . They will get old and die just like every one else. Perhaps they lack the courage to admit they have been wrong and wasted they're life.

    If you think about it, it is a materialistic goal . Everthing that money can buy ,and more, given to you on plate ... just so long as you love God enough and keep him happy. If not of course then only a "Second death" is good enough for you , you ungrateful so and so....... You join the mass of "Wicked" that have to be culled so that the rest of them can live in Paradise.

    I could carry on with this soapbox rant but I have said enough.

  • Gywen
    Gywen

    Well said, kenpodragon. After 10 years of my life lost due to this fictitious WT view of Paradise, I have come to the same conclusions as you. I believe that one day, maybe 10,000 years from now, the earth will be more harmonious (and certainly heaven will be), but it is a foolish sin to stop living one's life now thinking that if one does, then one will get paradise as a reward.

    I view JW's similar to Islam in this respect. Radical Muslims think that if they just die now, killing the infidel, they will go immediately to a paradise of virgins. JW's think that if they die now (in the sense of not living their life and pursuing WT approved goals only) that they will be transferred to a paradise (though not as much a sexual paradise as Islam).

    Yes, the smart thing to do is live life now, work to make the earth a better place. Be a good husband or wife, father or mother, son or daughter. Get involved helping others - feeding the poor, whatever - make this world a better place when you leave than when you found it.

    Take care, kenpodragon.

  • Black Man
    Black Man

    Hey Kenpo, GREAT THREAD!

    The whole utopian world is founded on a shaky foundation. Even in JW speak, it was never utopian when it was supposed to be utopian. Back in the garden of eden there was clearly some dissension up in heaven WAY before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. As long as you have intelligent creatures blessed with the gift of free will NOTHING WILL BE PERFECT. Unless everyone is a preprogrammed robot (a la Stepford Wives or something) there will be no utopia.

    What Blues Brother said was right on target............

    "If you think about it, it is a materialistic goal . Everthing that money can buy ,and more, given to you on plate ... just so long as you love God enough and keep him happy. If not of course then only a "Second death" is good enough for you , you ungrateful so and so....... You join the mass of "Wicked" that have to be culled so that the rest of them can live in Paradise."

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