Part III, Why Believe in God

by jst2laws 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Why Believe in God, PART III

    In Part II I tried to explain how the method of hyperbolic doubt has affected modern society’s thinking toward all things that can be doubted. We have grown up in this society believing the modernist teaching that if it can not be proven it should be rejected.

    Therefore belief in God has been referred to as a “matter of faith”, as if to say it is most likely a fantasy. It may appear foolish to even consider contradicting this view, but that is what is happening in what is called post-modernism.

    The passion of the modernist to find absolute certainty is being abandoned by many. The accomplishments of modern science cannot be denied, nor the fact that discoveries are the direct result of this modern scientific method. However, many are agreeing there is something missing in this approach. For example, the very societies that have grown up with modern science have had a surge of interest in eastern religion, astrology and mysticism. How does this add up? Post-modernist say the way we perceive the truth is affected by our conditioning, not the truth itself, and many agree with this. We have heard of phrases like “personal truth” (Polanyi) or individual reality. While I personally do not understand all of this I am going to stick my neck out a state my belief that I doubt that doubting is the only way to the truth. . Isn’t that a paradox? If hyperbolic doubt is the way to truth than hyperbolic doubt must be DOUBTED as well.

    THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD DOES NOT PROVIDE ALL THE ANSWERS

    The Cartesian method works wonderfully with the physical world, as it can be tested and proven, even boiled down to a mathematical formula. It explains how things work as a mechanic can tear down a machine and explain how all the parts function together. But this tells us nothing about the purpose of the machine. We might understanding how a microprocessor, hard drive, monitor and printer all work but this is useless without a program, an application to run on it. The application gives it purpose, value. Finding the purpose or value of things is something science cannot give us. We seem to have a ‘spiritual need’, a desire to understand the meaning of life, yet hyperbolic doubt cannot provide this. We seem to consciously or unconsciously seek meaning, without regard to proof. We seek to assign value or assume a purpose to give meaning to our own lives.

    UNPROVEN BELIEF IS VITAL TO SCIENCE

    Polanyi (Russian Scientist) raised some questions about how scientific discovery actually takes place. He contradicts Descartes’ stand that if it cannot be proven it must be rejected. The problem addressed is how does a scientist prove something without first having a belief that there is something to prove? When examining things one might notice what appears to be a harmony that is not likely coincidence. He may have an intuition or sense that there is something there to be discovered. He must believe there is something there in order to make a commitment to prove it. Yet until the scientific method is employed to prove the belief, it can be doubted. Without belief despite doubts would science make any discoveries?

    The only point here is even scientists have beliefs which can be doubted. In fact it is unproven belief that leads to new knowledge. In this sense, unproven belief is not only acceptable but desirable.

    IS IT FOOLISH TO COMMIT TO AN UNPROVEN BELIEF?

    If it is wrong or foolish to commit to beliefs then we are all fools.

    Many here invest in the stock market. There are no guarantees you will get a return or that our investment portfolio will not tank like Enron. We can do our research but there is no ‘absolute truth’ to back our belief that this is the place to commit our assets. Yet we believe and we act on our belief.

    We choose a mate with the belief this is the person with whom we can live. Often this belief turns out to be wrong. But should we all live celibate lives for fear we are mistaken. No proof, no absolute truth to rely on. Mundane sex can be had without commitment, but belief and commitment in a relationship adds value to life and give us a purpose in what we do. This belief has no guarantees nor any proof of validity.

    Likewise, we invest in our children. We make a commitment because we believe in loving our families and caring for them. Yet we only believe our children will grow up to be fine people due to our commitment. How can we demand proof of such a belief? Yet this is a belief I would die for even though I could be wrong.

    CONCLUSION

    You will note that the beliefs that we are willing to commit to without proof often involve relationships. And again, it is relationships that bring value and purpose to life. So why not allow for another belief in a relationship that cannot be guaranteed, one with God?

    Can any of us truly say we do not believe in anything that cannot be proven? I wonder if it is consistent to cast dispersion on the concept of God because his existence cannot be proven while we ourselves have beliefs and commitment to concepts that likewise cannot be proven?

    In this part I hope I have explained my belief that it is unreasonable to apply the Cartesian method to invalidate the existence of God, that the Cartesian method does not explain values, purposes or relationships. In Part IV I will try to address more specifically why I believe in God. However, by now you can see I will not be dealing with SCIENTIFIC PROOF.

    Jst2laws

  • rem
    rem

    CONCLUSION

    You will note that the beliefs that we are willing to commit to without proof often involve relationships. And again, it is relationships that bring value and purpose to life. So why not allow for another belief in a relationship that cannot be guaranteed, one with Purple Gnomes?

    Can any of us truly say we do not believe in anything that cannot be proven? I wonder if it is consistent to cast dispersion on the concept of Purple Gnomes because their existence cannot be proven while we ourselves have beliefs and commitment to concepts that likewise cannot be proven?

    In this part I hope I have explained my belief that it is unreasonable to apply the Cartesian method to invalidate the existence of Purple Gnomes, that the Cartesian method does not explain values, purposes or relationships. In Part IV I will try to address more specifically why I believe in Purple Gnomes. However, by now you can see I will not be dealing with SCIENTIFIC PROOF.

    rem

    "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
  • flower
    flower
    So why not allow for another belief in a relationship that cannot be guaranteed, one with God?

    Because unlike someone believing that their kids will grow up good people or believing that the stock market investment will succeed or that our chosen mate will be the one for us, believing in God is the blind faith belief that would alter our lives in the most dramatic way. In fact if indeed we are wrong our entire life could have been wasted as were all those years we were in the jws'. Some may not consider that part of their life a waste but more like an experience. I consider it a complete waste.

    I dont know how I could take the chance of wasting my entire life and my sons life following guidelines, and ideals..basing my entire existance around an idea that has a better chance of not being true than vice versa.

    You can get a divorce, make more money, and get over your kids not being what you expected. I cant think of any other blind faith belief I have that can come close to comparing to that of the God concept.

    flower

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Rem,

    Very good! LOL. I can not, even with the Cartesian method, disprove the existence of Purple Gnomes. If you are anyone else finds comfort in the belief in Purple Gnomes, with or without a millenniums old holy writings of the Purple Gnomes, I expect the consequence of yielding to this deity will be less harmful than what we went through with our WT experience.

    What you have brought up though may be worth discussing sometime. That is our perception of God. A Purple Gnome is funny, but not far off from a bearded old man on a celestial thrown. Perhaps an angry faced autocrat shooting lightning from his fingers at people who displease him. Bible writers tried to literalize God. We try to picture him, it, she into something we can related to.

    Yet Jesus said 'if you have seen me you have seen the father'. The only people who did not like what they saw in Jesus were the RELIGIOUS LEADERS. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Purple Gnome in the sky hates the WT and all religion as much as we do but for good reasons does not interfere.

    Don't ask me to proof it. But wouldn't it be a nice concept if it were true?

    Jst2laws

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    The only people who did not like what they saw in Jesus were the RELIGIOUS LEADERS.

    Sorry, I just have to call it as I see it; you just do not, by any stretch of any reasonable person's imagination, have the authority or knowledge to make that statement.

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    What happens to knowledge when we stop conceptualizing?

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    SixofNine,

    I'm not speaking authoritatively. From the start of this series I have tried to express my feelings and "knowledge".

    I said as you quoted

    The only people who did not like what they saw in Jesus were the RELIGIOUS LEADERS.
    In its context I am talking of people contemporary to Jesus, such as the religious leaders of his time. You say I have not the authority?
    Since when is authority required to express ones opinion? Nor the 'knowledge to make that statement'. I would not question your authority or knowledge, but since you have questione mine, what is your evidence?

    Jst2laws

  • SYN
    SYN

    Jst2Laws: So you're going to let something written in a 2K year old book convince you that people walked on water and performed miracles? Methinks you need to be a little bit more skeptical, your life would probably improve as a result...

    "If men were like their personal ads, they wouldn't need personal ads."

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Syn,

    So you're going to let something written in a 2K year old book convince you that people walked on water and performed miracles?
    You will notice I have not refer to any alleged miracles of Jesus nor even the bible as proof in this discussion. These would be of no proof to either you or myself.

    If you examine the thread closely I am first questioning if the modern scientific method, while valid in examining the physical universe, can be used to invalidate none physical beliefs or values.

    I will post Part V in a few minutes to continue, not a scriptural defense in belief in God, but a philosophic/scientific approach to the question.

    Jst2laws

  • SYN
    SYN

    Well, if for you, God = Jesus, then logically to believe in Jesus, you have to believe in his miracles too. After going through that logic, read my previous post again, and you will understand what I'm getting at.

    "If men were like their personal ads, they wouldn't need personal ads."

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