"Where else are we to go?" - How to answer?

by AlmostAtheist 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Hey Guys,

  Assume you're talking to a faithful, indoctrinated JW that is only now getting some doubts rolling in his head. Let's say that he doesn't have much info yet, hasn't done much research, and is pretty scared of anything that smells "apostate". But he can't help but notice how things within the congregation don't seem quite right.

  He says, "I feel like the apostles. They might have felt like something wasn't quite right -- all this eating flesh/drinking blood stuff -- but they knew they were associated with the right guy. Where else could I go?" He's asking in an almost rhetorical way, since he assumes there is no answer.

  What would you say to him?

  Dave
• 

  carla

  The question never was (biblically) 'where' but to 'whom'. Meaning to Jesus not to a man made org. Then you will have to get into the whole- 'surely, God uses an org on earth?' thing. round and round you go.

  I've had this converstion many many times with my jw. He has no concept at all of there not being 'one right' org or denomination on earth. He cannot understand what the 'body of Christ' is all about from a non jw standpoint. He does not understand or comprehend what someone means by a 'relationship' with God or Jesus, in my opinion. If you go in that direction you have to get into what is 'grace'. round and round again. Partly it is because they have changed the usual meaning of so many words that makes communication so difficult.

  Maybe someone has some fresh ideas for us?
• 

  kwintestal

  Didn't Peter ask the same question to Jesus when Jesus asked him if he wanted to stick around? Oh, ... no. I believe he asked, "To WHOM shall I go."

  Kwin
• 

  Elsewhere

  I'm always amazed when someone asks that quiestion.

  <---- Me looking back at them

  "What do you mean, 'where will I go?' There is so much out there I have no idea where to begin! The reason you don't see anywhere to go is because you have been caught in the JW shell for so long. Go out and explore and see what you find!"
• 

  TD

  Hi Dave,

  He says, "I feel like the apostles. They might have felt like something wasn't quite right -- all this eating flesh/drinking blood stuff -- but they knew they were associated with the right guy. Where else could I go?" He's asking in an almost rhetorical way, since he assumes there is no answer.

  If he specifically referred to this incident (John 6:53) then you could point out that it's not a "Where" question, it's a "Who" question.

  "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." (John 6:68)

  Is the JW organization necessary to hold to the sayings of Jesus?
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  The question never was (biblically) 'where' but to 'whom'.

  Let's assume our hypothetical JW thinks that the org is a "whom". So from his perspective, the question still stands.

  In his mind, Jesus was walking around on earth knowing that 2,000 years later some group of men would be taking care of his earthly belongings. He believes that, and he believes that the Watchtower is probably it. But now he's experiencing some doubts. He's starting to crack a little, as he looks casually around to see if there's a more Jesus-like organization to which he can attach himself.

  He still wants to be told what to think, he's just not sure he wants the Watchtower doing the telling.

  It feels like a guy that has always worshipped the Invisible Pink Unicorn, only to trip one day and fall through it, thus realizing it isn't really there. Rather than say, "Oh, there isn't one. Ok," he asks, "Where did it go?" and heads off in search of it.

  How do you get inside that sort of thinking and direct it in a way that helps it along to "Oh, there isn't one"?

  Dave
• 

  LittleToe

  You educate them about the meaning of common words like "grace" and "whom". Only when they can understand English will they stand half a chance in the real world.

  Beyond that everyone else has said it well
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  "What do you mean, 'where will I go?' There is so much out there I have no idea where to begin! The reason you don't see anywhere to go is because you have been caught in the JW shell for so long. Go out and explore and see what you find!"

  Agreed, I'd love to plant that thought in any doubting JW's head. But I can't see the direct route being largely successful, particularly since part of their training is to reject that type of thought. I'm looking for an indirect way of planting that same thought.

  With TD's comment, I see the larger difference between the "who" and the "where" that you've all pointed out. Of course, as mentioned earlier, we're back to the Jehovah = Jesus = Organization mentality, which is a whole other but related problem.

  Can a slightly-doubting JW see that Jesus is still approachable on his own, without the need for an organization? He said there would be one (FDS), so the JW is looking for it. Now you're trying to break the FDS doctrine, argh! Round and round...

  Is this all sorted out on some web site somewhere? I can only imagine a complete conversation from "Where else shall we go?" to "Oh, there isn't one. Ok" must be a god-awful big discussion, something a poor doubter couldn't manage. Catch-22?

  Dave
• 

  greendawn

  They will eventually have to find a serious non cultic religion or just worship on their own, in spirit and truth, and associate with others of similar mentality.
• 

  LittleToe

  Even while avoiding the mind-exploding concept of the deity of Christ, is it possible to explain that Stephen had a nice quite chat with Jesus just before he snuffed it, so what's good for the goose should be good for the gander?