God on Trial - #1

by Amazing 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Premise: Many who have read the Bible over the centuries have accepted it as authoritatively from God, and have glossed over some glaring inconsistencies, contradictions, and shear nonsense. Some cultish groups have attempted to mimick the myths and twisted beliefs they have derived from the Bible. Jehovah's Witnesses are no exception to this.

    This raises the questions: If the Bible (as we know it) is from God, having his stamp of authorship and approval, then can we ever at some point raise serious questions about it? Questioning, not out of disrespect for God, but to make sure that what we believe makes sense and bears the stamp of at least making sense? And, if the Bible is flawed and not entirely from God, or not from God at all, then would that not mean it is all the more important to raise serious questions? How will we ever know or make any sensible judgment unless we start with a questioning premise?

    God on Trial: My goal here is not one of being unfaithful or mean to God, but to let him answer and speak where he wishes. But, at the same time, I have to ask some tough questions. Let's start with one:

    Why did God order the genocide of the entire population of Jericho? What was the justification for this?: He ordered that every man, woman, child, and all livestock, save Rahab the Harlot and her family and friends, to be totally destroyed. Only the precious and semi-precious metals were saved into the treasury of Jehovah. Then, the entire city burned, followed by a prohibition on all future generations or any person from ever rebuilding this city. Why?

    Problem: God tells Moses, via the Ten Commandment, that the people of Israel must not Kill (Murder for those being more accurate). How was the massacre at Jericho not an act of murderous genocide? How can God order his people to murder an entire city in such a horrible act, and then at the same time tell them they shall not murder? Why did not the Israelites stand up and challenge Joshua by citing the Ten Commandments, and then bring Joshua up on charges of apostasy from Jehovah?

    How to answer?: Plausibilities are not an answer, as these are only speculations and fancy rationalizations. The event at Jericho, according to the Bible, is real; and, therefore, deserves real answers, and not speculative rationalizations. Did God ever justify this horrible act at his demand? Why did he use Israel, the very people he earlier orders not to murder, to carry out such genocide?

    Reference: The primary reference of this account is found at Joshua chapters 2 through 6. Here is the statement in the Bible, Josh 6:21, "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, both young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword."

    The God of love, who authored the Bible, His reported written "Word", and directing the nation of Israel, whom he ordered not to murder, Jehovah God so carried out murder through them. Total destruction! Total genocide! All items of value going to Jehovah's treasury. Any Israelite failing to carry out this command was also to be destroyed. i.e. Achan, his wife, children, and livestock were killed for keeping some of the valueables.

    How do you respond?: How can we answer? By what right can Jehovah God command it illegal and wicked to murder, and then not only violate His own laws, but have his very people under this Mosaic Law violate that law? Does this mean that murder is only murder if we do it without God's orders? So then, the Law was not some perfect standard foreshadowing the Law of Love. Rather, it seems like a mockery, a rule that can be set aside at any time when it is inconvenient to keep.

    Why did not God abide by this good law, and show how to accomplish good WITOUT violating his own law against murder? Would this not have exalted God's law, by keeping it, and still accomplishing His will? COuld not God have simply caused the people of jericho to repent and join Israel, or at least up and moved away?

    Again, why did not Israel challenge Joshua on this as a contradiction to what they made a Covenant NOT to do - murder? This really means that God's laws are reduced to little more than arbitrary rules that God uses for his own ends, but in themselves have little intrinsic value.

    My Thoughts?: Other than the questions I have raised, and suggested problems, I am not sure what to think anymore. - Amazing

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Damn you Amazing! You've just rocked the foundation of my life to it's very core!

    Weird, it feels surprisingly peaceful and free??????? Is it supposed to feel this way when everything you believed in is exposed as a childrens fable?

  • species8472
    species8472

    I am SlayerLayer (hear me roar)

    Another excellent post Amazing.

    Even in our judicial system today, children are spared from the death penalty. A mercy that God has failed to show many times, according to "his own book".

    What amazes me, is that JW's actually look forward to a day when God will do it again. My own mother has refused to spend any time with my 2 year old son. She said, and I quote...

    "I don't want to know him. I know that sounds cruel, but I don't want to get to know him and love him, only to lose him at armageddon. That is why you need to get reinstated. His life is in your hands."

    Truly a disgusting belief.

    So according to them, God is not only a baby killer, but he uses this as a threat. He sounds more like a mafia boss than a loving father.
    "If you don't work for me, I'll kill your son."

    You can keep you genocidal god.

    Even if there were proof of his existence, I would never serve a murdering, hypocritical, maniac.

    SlayerLayer

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Six and Slayer: I still believe in God, primarily because of Jesus Christ. But, as I step back and take a long hard look at the Bible - such as I did on H20 with an engineering analysis of the Flood of Noah - I am beginning to find many more serious issues that are too difficult to answer.

    They are not issues which can be ignored, such as whether God is Triune or Unitarian, but far most importantly, they are issues with God keeping His own Divine Law, a perfect Law, and a Law that he demanded Israel to keep! The Law on murder. (This does not even take into considerastion the looting and stealing by Israel of the valueables of Jericho to be placed into God's treasury.)

    It is all starting to crumble as I take a closer and more realistic evaluation of what is said, verses what is actually done in the name of Jeovah God, even by God Himself. - Amazing

  • pandora
    pandora

    Amazing -
    I have seen this point made only one other time, and it is truly shocking to think of how much violence goes on in the bible that is sanctioned by god.
    While I was reading your post it also occured to me that it has a fairly modern day parallel. That being Hitler. I think I read once that he thought he was doing gods work. And how like the situation you just mentioned. It parallels so closely.
    Makes you think.
    The implications that the Bible, a book thought of as inspiring love, actually inspired something like Hitler and the Nazi's.... It is too much to comprehend. But I see from your post how it is possible now.
    I don't want anything to do with a book that could inspire such horror. It makes no matter if it be true. If god is truely THAT god, he can stay away from me. He is not what I want to look up to.

    Thank you for opening my eyes yet again.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Pandora: Thanks for your good points. It is not my goal to contribute to causing people to doubt God or lose faith, but at the same time, as I honestly think about all this, and ponder it publicly, it is all starting to seem more and more absurd how God acts - at least Jehovah the God of Israel with his wars against people for nothing, and the God of Islam with His Holy Jihads against people who don't even know the name of Allah. Christians, too, have done unspeakable things in God's name.

    Yet, while some will argue that these are acts of people, and not God, in Israel's case it was God's orders through Joshua to completely destroy Jericho. Thanks again. - Amazing

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Excellent post, Amazing. It's clear from stories in the Bible such as the genocide at Jericho that, even if we ignore the inconsistencies and absurdities in the Old Testament, it's not a book about a loving god. It more closely fits the premise that it's a semi-historical record of an almost-savage tribe and their barbaric exploits. I'm with Slayer: even if that god did exist, I would rather burn for eternity than serve him.

    --
    Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire

  • CPiolo
    CPiolo

    Amazing:

    Again you raise good and difficult questions. Again I must say I respect immensely someone who closely examines their beliefs the way you have been. Best of luck on your journey.

    CPiolo

  • TotalRecluse
    TotalRecluse

    I dont believe your comments should be entitled "God on Trial" but rather "The Bible on Trial" I have much faith in God, but the bible after all was penned by men. I dont believe that the majority of what is written in there is actual and factual ( to steal a phrase from many R&B performers )

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Recluse: Good point, the Bible is really on trial. Ostensibly, the Bible claims to be, or to have, God's words and directions for the nation of Israel. So, the account of the Jericho genocide contains direction and quotations from the mouth of Jehovah, the God of Israel. It seems hard to find a way to separate the Bible from God.

    Even if we are able to make a sepatation, such that what took place at Jericho was the result of the mentality of Joshua, then the issue still stands as God on Trial, because He permits such things to happen, and in this specific case, His nation did these in His name with no sanctions.

    I appreciate your perspective, and it has given me cause to make a finer distinction in these series. Thanks again. - Amazing

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