Faith beyond beliefs

by Narkissos 13 Replies latest watchtower medical

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  Narkissos

  Hello,

  To make a long story short, I'm an xJW from France: born and baptized as a Catholic, I became a JW in 1972 at the age of 13 with part of my family; then a pioneer and a Bethel member, before being disfellowshipped for "apostasy" in 1986. Afterwards, involved in theology and Bible edition with the mainstream Protestant churches, slowly drifting from the Evangelical to the Liberal wing and finally out of all religious groups and beliefs. The "atheologist" label, I guess, would suit fairly enough by now.

  The question I'd like to ask my fellow xJW "brothers and sisters" (and there seems to be plenty of them around ) is the following: what would you now retain from Christianity, or the Bible, or "God"? Is there a kind of "faith" after the collapse of beliefs? How would you define it?

  The question is especially directed to those of you who would not easily term themselves "Christians", and who have not sticked to any recognized "creed".

  Looking forward to reading from you,

  Narkissos
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  Narkissos

  Well, my previous post has been labeled as "medical", but it was not meant to be!!! And I don't know how to change the heading...
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  DanTheMan

  I view the Bible as the history and mythology of an ancient people, no more or less important than any other ancient writings. YHWH was a desert deity, in competition with a myriad of other gods that people in that time period believed in.

  Jesus said some nice things. So did Plato, Confuscious, Buddha, Ghandi, etc.
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  LittleToe

  I feel like I've done little but talk about spirituality and my beliefs, recently.
  I tend to brand myself as an "Unorthodox Christian".

  I believe that the core tenet of Christianity is a personal relationship with Christ.
  Most else is window dressing, of which I have my fair share.
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  gumby

  Hi Narcissos,

  Welcome to this forum and thanks for the well thought out question....it's a good one!

  what would you now retain from Christianity, or the Bible, or "God"? Is there a kind of "faith" after the collapse of beliefs?

  It's hard to have a faith in a belief for me....unless that belief has facts to prove the belief is worth believing. Such as God.

  I believe in a higher intelligence, but havent a clue about it.......other than the belief it started something, then turned chickenshit and left us to fend for ourselves.....the sick bastard!

  Actually thats how I see it. I marvel at the way things are made and the beauty of the mind that put it together, .......then I'm saddened by the fact that this beautiful creation suffers as it does with no logical explanation. I beklieve as has been mentioned....the bible contains much useful information, ....but so do other books writen my men.

  The difference is....the bible is full of horror stories of a vengeful god in the OT......and not much nicer to ones who can't believe in a myth in the NT.

  Gumby
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  GentlyFeral

  Nothing but the Golden Rule -- Matthew 7:12.

  When I began questioning the Bible, nothing els e was left standing-- not even Jesus.

  GentlyFeral
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  Gopher

  Some people choose to believe in what they don't know or understand. They would either be called people of "faith", or superstitious, depending on who you're asking.

  Other people only believe what they can definitely prove. They're called people of "logic", or faithless, depending on who you're asking.

  People on this board range from one extreme to the other extreme, and everywhere in between. But most have already been fooled by one "faith" group and are wary of all others. I think that is reasonable.
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  mizpah

  Most of my friends and I were Christians before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses and most remain after leaving the organization. Most have taken different directions. A few have gone back to traditional churches. Some have become "home Baptist" with no affiliations. But the one thread that seems to be common is the general mistrust of "organized religion." The Watchtower experience has made us wary.

  I'm still inspired by the simple and loving teachings of Christ. And I still have faith in his promises of life everlasting.
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  Patrick

  The drugs used in other religious rites tend to be hallucinogenic rather then narcotic or stupefying, and these have a quite different effect upon anxiety. Common to plants with such active principles as Banisteria, Amanita and Datura is the production of a sudden surge of energy with visions in which terror and splendour may be equally present. "Banisteria" one must remember that shamanistic traditions speak of an initiatory experience in which the body is torn apart by beasts of prey, after which a crystalline body is given by the spirits. The traditional method is to accept the attack which the drug makes on the self without fear, an acceptance which transforms anxiety into knowledge. "Amanita" puts the motor system into spasm, and the shamans who use it must go through a long education in this experience and have to grapple with the visions it produces before they can master its effects. "Datura" also activates a sense of physical power together with pyschic ambition that may lead a person so far out of his personal range that a spasm of timidity may leave him stranded on a ungovernable activity. "Psilocybe mushrooms" which is clinically said to be that of depersonalization, but the tribal practitioners in fact call it dematerialization and use its effects when they wish to penetrate material obstacles, to free consciousness from its bodily entanglements and allow the shaman to inhabit bodies other than his own for healing.
  "Peyote" traditionally used has yet other consequences. Visions occur without apparent reason, and the Indians phrase this by saying that peyote is a power in itself that works from the outside. Under this drug one does not dream, one is dreamed. It was used by the Aztecs for divinatory purposes, and by the Tarahumara of Mexico as the body of divinity.
  Amateurism in these matters does little but create a problem, and if the mind is to reach beyond itself by the use of a drug like these, you must be placed into the sevice of someone you trust, rather then folly and isolation. Anxiety is what causes the so called "bad trip;" alcoholic beverages will reduce effects. Never take any religious rites plants with people you do not trust. You want to come over for a plate of Lasagna with mushrooms? Oh; where is your faith?
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  freedomfighter82

  Hello Everyone! I'm so excited we have a chance to discuss this without being punished or cast out- freedom of thought and expression, who would have thought? Anyway, after I left the WTS, I had no beliefs in God at all, I was a complete aethiest and a total party animal to boot. I had no morals, no values, no faith, I was a mess and much of it was because the WTS had formed me into a complete failure as a human being. After much drug use, sex, the list goes on, I decided something had to be done because I was so lost and miserable. I prayed and prayed that if God exist, he find me and make my heart over. I would say to him, "I don't believe the JW's are right, but I want to believe in something. Please answer my prayers, help me attend meetings and to believe or if they're not right, help me find those who are." So, I started going back to meetings with my mom and brother. It was even worse this time around- going back only confirmed they were all crazy and no way could this be right. After I stopped attending again, and after several more months of prayer and my best friend who was a born-again Christian called me and said she'd been praying for me too, it happened: I found Jesus, and it was a miracle. I have never been lost again- I have my conscience back! I know the difference between right and wrong and have a relationship with God, not with some organization. The term "Found Jesus" probably sounds forein and incorrect to most of you, trust me I didn't know what the heck it meant until it happened to me. The Lord loves you all and wants you to be saved. The WTS is ran by Satan and it will fall one day very soon, but the Lord is honest and true and if you pray enough, he will come into your hearts as well. I'll pray for you all too of course! Don't be callased towards God because something as horrible as the WTS consumed your life for a while, if you're here you're on the right track to spiritual freedom, you will find it!