144,000 — A "theillogical" evaluation

by AuldSoul 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  A Paduan

  I tend to leave that doctrine alone - kinda like em to keep it - isn't it cute watching them scramble over the top of one another ?
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  DannyBloem

  I would go for 12^2*10^3
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  Schizm

  And that only shows even more why 144,000 simply cannot be read literally - or any of Revelation for that matter. -- ozziepost.

  Then how many heads DOES the wild beast have, if not literally "seven"?

  Seven heads = 7 Kings = 7 World Rulerships = Egypt + Assyria + Babylon + Medo-Persia + Greece + Rome + All Governments Since Rome (which collectively rule the world together) = seven heads .

  Schizm

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  Ingenuous

  I wonder if JWs still hold onto this number as literal because it's one of the few things of C. T. Russell's that they still agree with. Then again - Russell said the 144K were those who'd inherit the "divine nature", while the "great crowd" was still a heavenly class, just not gifted with divinity.

  Or - perhaps it's another power-play. If the number wasn't literal, than any old JW could be anointed, have God's spirit, and have a right to question, challenge, and generally disobey the Org without any meaningful sanction. Who has a right to tell you how to worship God when you're as much of a spiritual heavyweight as they are?
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  mustang

  Danny: try 4!*3!*10^3

  Mustang
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  AuldSoul

  I would go for 12^2*10^3

  That was the easiest one I came up with, too. But it didn't use "6 x factor" as its base, which as everyone knows is the basis for any calculation in Revelation because of the Beast with 666 as its number. It is SO obvious! (yeah, right!)

  Take the 1,360 days, for example. If we start with 6^2 = 36, 36*10 = 360, 360 + 10^3 = 1360 days! It is so simple a child could do it, but the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God so no one ever thinks to apply these simple rules to the Bible's numbers.

  All kidding aside, I was just doing the exercise to show that with large numbers like 144,000 (or 2520) there are dozens of mathematical variations for arriving at them, none of which are valid. It is an exercise in conjecture. The sad truth is, I could probably start a successful religion based on that unique numerology system just because it is so different it would separate believers from the madding crowd.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  PMJ

  for me even if i wasnt a jw.every one going to heaven just doesnt make sence.if every one goes to heaven who are the 144000.going to rule over?what was the purpose of jesus coming to earth?when jesus puts a end to this system.what then?people living on earth makes sence that was Gods purpose its clear to see Gods plan when man fell in to sin was to get back perfect life for human kind.on earth.gods pupose for humans was to live on earth.his purpose has not changed
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  drew sagan

  I read one Bible commentator that evaluated this scripture as meaning that every christian denomination has members that are faithful to God and members who are not and that this verse sybolises how those that would be found acceptable from god would come from the various religions because God dosn't look at relgions he looks at the individual. In essence, no matter what race we are or where we come from we can all be counted worthy. That's why the scripture breaks the 144,000 down to the twelve tribes.
  Although it's just one explanation for the scripture I have foudn it an interesting point worth considering. One that would never even be considered by the Watchtower.
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  drew sagan

  This is for PMJ.
  
  People have allways held various ideas as to what everlasting life will be like. Many have speculated about such things, coming up with various theories that seem to explain what is going to be the future of our existance. One thing when doing my Bible research I have allways found amazing:
  THE BIBLE SIMPLY DOSN"T GET INTO THE DETAILS.
  Can you find on full chapter that talks about nothing except what everlasting life will be like? People in Bible times had their opinions of what it would be like and so do we, but can anybody say for sure that they know everthing about Gods purposes (if of course you believe in God). At times I have said to myself, why donsn't the Bible get into more detail about this or that. Why are we left to wonder? What about this and what about that. Boo Hoo Hoo :( I have finally come to the conclusion that everlasting life is everlasting life and if you choose to believe in the Bibles promise of it then there really isn't much more that you have to worry about. Are you affraid that God won't give you eternal life because you didn't understand what it would be like? We need to believe in faith of the promise, not in the details as stated by men.
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  ozziepost

  Then how many heads DOES the wild beast have, if not literally "seven"?

  In Revelation there are many sevens, 7 letters, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 thunders, 7 heads. Seven itself conveys "complete, perfect, total, mostly, but not exclusively, associated with God.

  In fact numbers are repeated, like 3,4,7,10,12,1000. They are an example of the symbolism that Revelation is full of, like colours, numbers and animals.

  It's unwise to push a literal interpretation upon the features of the book if a symbolic one will fit.

  Remember symbols are flexible and don't always mean exactly the same thing in differing situations. They also tend to add i.e. 7 horns means perfect power.

  Often symbols can be decyphered from the visual impression that the symbol makes - i.e. in ch 6 v2 a rider on a white horse is given a crown and a bow and is sent out to conquer [not really too hard].

  Don't push the symbols and the details too hard but rather let the "big picture" convey the meaning.

  Cheers, Ozzie