Comments You Will Not Hear At the 5-8-04 WT Study

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    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-8-04 (week of 5-2 to 5-8-04) WT Study (4/1/04 WT)

    Review comments will be in black and parentheses ()

    WT quotes

    will be in red and quotes ""

    Quotes from other sources

    will be in blue

    RESIST THE SPIRIT OF A CHANGING WORLD

    "We received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God."?1 Corinthians 2:12

    And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world's spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us..?1 Corinthians 2:12 (New Living Translation)

    www.biblegateway.com /cgi-bin/bible

    Opening Comments

    One thing to look out for are statements of assumption in the Watchtower, assuming facts not in evidence. Who really is being deceptive?

    These can appear as general statements without specific examples. Or doctrinal conclusions without supporting scriptural proof.

    Do you look for buzzwords or phrases, such as "true" Christians or "Jehovah?s servants" (leaving Jesus out of the picture)? Do you notice how often scriptures from the OT are highlighted as guidance for being a Christian? Or Biblical figures from the OT used as examples?

    Why are snippets of scriptures being used? Why is it taken out of context? Is something being concealed?

    Why does the WTS fail to provide sources for quotes it makes from non-JW publications?

    Do you take note of how often the "carrot" of everlasting life in Paradise is highlighted?

    START OF ARTICLE

    "The serpent?it deceived me."

    (Genesis 3:13) With those few words, the first woman, Eve, endeavored to explain why she had embarked on a course of rebellion against Jehovah God. What she said was true, although it did not excuse her wrongdoing. The apostle Paul was later inspired to write: "[Eve] was thoroughly deceived." (1 Timothy 2:14) She was deceived into believing that an act of disobedience?eating the forbidden fruit?would benefit her, making her like God. She was also deceived about the identity of the one who deluded her. Little did she know that the serpent was merely a mouthpiece for Satan the Devil.?Genesis 3:1-6.

    w03 8/1 p. 9 Jehovah, the God of Truth

    Though Eve had never before been lied to, she must have recognized that what she heard from the serpent was not in harmony with what God had told her husband, Adam.

    w93

    2/1 p. 10 Godly Subjection?Why and by Whom?

    That is why Eve, the first woman, let herself be deceived by the serpent.

    If Eve was held responsible for recognizing something as a lie when she had never heard a lie before, why did she not recognize that something more than a serpent was talking to her, although she had never heard a snake talk before? I was never able to reconcile this as a child nor as an adult. Were Adam and Eve really ready for this deceitful attack? Does that Bible say that they will not be resurrected?

    What did Charles Taze Russell teach and the Bible Students of today still teach?

    The "Jehovah's Witnesses" deny that Adam will ever have a resurrection, while the Scriptures plainly state that Jesus Christ tasted death "for every man." Heb. 2:9; 1 Tim. 2: 5,6. Pastor Russell pointed out these Scriptures and many others such as 1 Cor. 15: 22, - "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Also Hosea 13:14, --"I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: 0 death, I will be thy plagues; 0 grave, I will be thy destruction."

    Pastor Russell taught

    , according to the Scriptures, that now is "the day of salvation" for those who are to be the Bride of Christ, the Little Flock; and that another day - a day of salvation is awaiting mankind in general, in the Millennial Age
    -"the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21)

    http://www.nsbible.org/pastor_not_founder.htm

    Even Rutherford taught that Adam would be resurrected.

    "Just when Adam will be awakened, only the Lord knows. It may be early or it may be late during the period of restoration" (J. F. Rutherford, Reconciliation, 1928, pp. 323, 324).

    Yet only 11 years later:

    "There is no promise found in the Scriptures that Adam's redemption and resurrection and salvation will take place at any time. Adam had a fair trial for life and completely failed" (J. F. Rutherford, Salvation, 1939, p. 43). .

    Paragraph 2

    Since the time of Adam and Eve, Satan has continued to deceive people. He is in fact, "misleading the entire inhabited earth." (Revelation 12:9) His tactics have not changed.

    Huh?

    Though he no longer employs a literal serpent, he continues to conceal his identity.

    Through parts of the entertainment industry, the media, and other means, Satan misleads people into believing that they neither need nor benefit from God?s loving direction. The Devil?s campaign of deception has produced in people everywhere a spirit of rebellion against Bible laws and principles. The Bible calls this, "the spirit of the world." (1 Corinthians 2:12) This spirit powerfully influences the beliefs, attitudes, and behavior of those who do not know God. How is that spirit manifested, and how can we resist its corrupting influence? Let us see.

    How deceptive could Satan really have been appearing as a talking serpent? A young "imperfect" adult of today wouldn?t be fooled. If his methods today are as effective?.

    Only "parts" of the entertainment industry and media, hmmm, I?m sure the WTS determines which parts.

    "People everywhere" are a spirit a rebellion against Bible laws/principles; is that true, what evidence is provided.

    "Those who do not know God" is just a way of saying anyone who is not a JW.

    Moral Values in Decline

    Paragraph 3

    In modern times, "the spirit of the world" has become increasingly manifest. (2 Timothy 3:1-5) You have likely notice that moral values are in decline.

    Notice how no proof or statistics of any kind are provided except the self-reporting type.

    The Scriptures explain why this is so. Following the establishment of God?s Kingdom in the year 1914, war broke out in heaven. Satan and his demon angels were defeated and cast down to the vicinity of the earth. Enraged, Satan has intensified his campaign of global deception. (Revelation 12:1-9, 12,17) In every way he can, he endeavors "to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones." (Matthew 24:24)

    As God?s people, we are his prime target.

    He strives to destroy our spirituality so that we will lose Jehovah?s favor and the prospect of everlasting life.

    Is there any proof or reference to proof made about 1914? "God?s people" = Jehovah?s Witnesses. And the "carrot" motivating JWs makes its first appearance, "the prospect of everlasting life."

    Paragraph 4

    Satan tries to discredit the Bible, the precious book that teaches us about out loving Creator.

    The WTS discredits the Bible with all its rules that have no Bible basis, i.e., male members not being allowed to have beards.

    (Mark 7:11-13)

    But YOU men say, ?If a man says to his father or his mother: "Whatever I have by which you may get benefit from me is corban, (that is, a gift dedicated to God,)"?? 12 YOU men no longer let him do a single thing for his father or his mother, 13 and thus YOU make the word of God invalid by YOUR tradition which YOU handed down. And many things similar to this YOU do.

    Jehovah?s servants
    (buzzword) love and treasure the Bible. We know that it is the inspired Word of God, not the word of men. (1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Timothy 3:16) Satan?s world (everyone not a JW), however, would have us think differently. For example, the preface of a book that attacks the Bible states: "There is nothing ?holy? about the Bible, nor is it ?the word of God.? It was not written by God-inspired saints, but by power-seeking priests." Those who are led to believe such claims may easily fall prey to the misguided notion that they are free to worship God in any way that they please?or not to worship him at all.?Proverbs 14:12.

    "Jehovah?s servants" leaves Jesus out of the equation; are JWs Christian based on this designation? "Satan?s world" is everyone and everything outside the WTS, including non-JW family, friends, neighbors, and workmates.

    Do you know what book this is? The source is not named.

    Yes, people might have the misguided notion that they don?t have to follow what the WTS says in the only way to worship God, that only they can explain the Bible.

    w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible?A Book Meant to Be Understood

    Even as Bible prophecy pointed forward to the Messiah, it also directs us to the close-knit body of anointed Christian Witnesses that now serve as the faithful and discreet slave. It helps us to understand the Word of God. All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah?s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.?John 6:68.

    Paragraph 5

    Direct and indirect attacks on the Bible, along with the religious hypocrisy of those who claim to support it, have resulted in a growing disapproval of religion, including religion that is associated with the Bible.

    Has the hypocrisy of the WTS with its flip-flop doctrines and child abuse reporting policies had a part to play in this?

    In the news media and academic circles, religion is under attack.

    No examples provided.

    One author observes, "The view of Judaism and Christianity that pervades popular culture is negative. At best they are seen as quaint; at worst, as archaic perspectives that hinder intellectual maturity and obstruct scientific progress. In recent years disdain has grown to ridicule and open hostility."

    The author and source is not quoted.

    This hostility often originates with those who deny God?s existence and who have become "empty-headed in their reasonings."?Romans 1:20-22.

    Paragraph 6

    It comes as no surprise, therefore, that people are straying ever further from God?s standards of behavior. For example the Bible describes homosexual relations as "obscene." (Romans 1:26,27)

    I would think having sex with children and protecting pedophiles is more "obscene" yet the WTS policies protect pedophiles and punish children who report it.

    www.silentlambs.org

    It also states that those practicing fornication and adultery will not inherit God?s Kingdom.

    But until 1983 bestiality was not grounds for a scriptural divorce. The following reference was difficult to find since it is not in the Index and could only be found using the word "bestiality" and searching each WT occurrence. Hmmmmm??.

    w72 1/1 p. 32 Questions from Readers

    While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.

    Yet in many lands not only are those sexual practices considered acceptable but they are glamorized in books, magazines, songs, movies and TV shows (examples???).

    Those who speak out against such practices are viewed as intolerant, judgmental, and out of touch with enlightened thinking. Rather than seeing God?s standards as expressions of loving concern, the world (anyone not a JW) views them as roadblocks to personal freedom and fulfillment.?Proverbs 17:15; Jude 4.

    The WTS takes it upon itself to interfere with the sexual practices of people married to each other, as well.

    w72 12/1 p. 735 Questions from Readers

    It is certainly not the responsibility of elders or any others in a Christian congregation to search into the private lives of married couples. Nevertheless, if future cases of gross unnatural conduct, such as the practice of oral or anal copulation, are brought to their attention, the elders should act to try to correct the situation before further harm results, as they would do with any other serious wrong. Their concern is, of course, to try to help those who go astray and are ?caught in the snare of the Devil.? (2 Tim. 2:26) But if persons willfully show disrespect for Jehovah God?s marital arrangements, then it becomes necessary to remove them from the congregation as dangerous "leaven" that could contaminate others.?1 Cor. 5:6, 11-13.

    Then 6 years later:

    w78 2/15 pp. 30-31 Questions from Readers

    Beyond these basic guidelines the Scriptures do not go and, hence, we cannot do more than counsel in harmony with what the Bible does say. In the past some comments have appeared in this magazine in connection with certain unusual sex practices, such as oral sex, within marriage and these were equated with gross sexual immorality. On this basis the conclusion was reached that those engaging in such sex practices were subject to disfellowshiping if unrepentant. The view was taken that it was within the authority of congregational elders to investigate and act in a judicial capacity regarding such practices in the conjugal relationship.

    A careful further weighing of this matter, however, convinces us that, in view of the absence of clear Scriptural instruction, these are matters for which the married couple themselves must bear the responsibility before God and that these marital intimacies do not come within the province of the congregational elders to attempt to control nor to take disfellowshiping action with such matters as the sole basis.

    And in 1983:

    w83 3/15 p. 31 Honor Godly Marriage!

    As already stated, it is not for elders to "police" the private marital matters of couples in the congregation. However, if it becomes known that a member of the congregation is practicing or openly advocating perverted sex relations within the marriage bond, that one certainly would not be irreprehensible, and so would not be acceptable for special privileges, such as serving as an elder, a ministerial servant or a pioneer. Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation.

    Paragraph 7

    Amid a world that is becoming increasingly entrenched in its opposition to God, it would be wise for us to look at our own attitude and values. Periodically, we should prayerfully and honestly examine ourselves (but to be sure check with the elders) to make sure that we are not gradually drifting away from Jehovah?s thinking and standards (translation: WTS thinking and standards). We might, for example ask ourselves:

    ?Do I entertain myself with subject matter than I would have shunned some years ago? (R-rated movies like the Matrix)

    Have I become more tolerant of practices that God condemns? (Do I play warlike video games or paintball?)

    Am I inclined to regard spiritual matters less seriously than I did in the past? (Do I still attend all five meetings every week)

    Does the way I live show that I put Kingdom interests first in my life? (Have you purchased a house or new car lately, are you taking advanced education?) (Matthew 6:33) Such reflections will help us to resist the spirit of the world.

    "Never Drift Away"

    Paragraph 8

    To fellow Christians (only the anointed), the apostle Paul wrote: "It is necessary for us to pay more than the usual attention to things heard by us, that we may never drift away." (Hebrews 2:1) A ship adrift does not reach its destination. If a captain is inattentive to wind and current, his ship might easily drift past a safe harbor and run aground on a rocky shore. Similarly, if we are inattentive to the precious truths (buzz phrase) of God?s Word, we might easily drift away from Jehovah (the WTS) and suffer spiritual shipwreck.

    To suffer such loss, we would not necessarily have to reject the truth outright. In fact not many reject Jehovah suddenly and deliberately. More often, they gradually get involved in something that distracts them from paying attention to God?s Word (making a living?). Almost imperceptibly, they drift into sin (the sin of missing meetings). Like a captain, who is asleep, such individuals do not wake up until it is too late (when is it too late according to the WTS?).

    Of course, when the WTS "drifts" it is called something else.

    w81 12/1 p. 27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter

    However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah?s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view (flip-flop doctrines). But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as "tacking." By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds.

    Flip-flop doctrine:

      1879-1929 Superior authorities?secular governments

      1929-1962 Superior authorities?God and Christ

      1962-2004 Superior authorities?secular governments

      Paragraph 9

      Consider the life course of Solomon (OT example). Jehovah entrusted him with kingship over Israel. God allowed Solomon to build the temple and directed him to write parts of the Bible. Jehovah spoke with him on two occasions and granted him wealth, fame, and a peaceful reign. Above all, Jehovah blessed Solomon with great wisdom. The Bible states: "God continued giving Solomon wisdom and understanding in very great measure and a broadness of heart, like the sand that is upon the seashore. And Solomon?s wisdom was vaster than the wisdom of all the Orientals and than all the wisdom of Egypt." (1 Kings 4:21, 29, 30; 11:9) Surely one might think, if anyone was likely to remain faithful to God, it was Solomon. Yet, Solomon drifted into apostasy. How did that happen?

      At one time, the WTS taught that Solomon would not be resurrected.

      Box on page 11

      Worldly Wisdom Versus Godly Wisdom (versus WTS Wisdom)

      Truth is relative?people make their own truth: "[God?s] word is truth.?John 17:17 (Truth is only in the WTS publications)

      To determine right and wrong, trust your feelings: "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate."?Jeremiah 17:9 (To determine right and wrong, ask an elder)

      Do your own thing: "It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."?Jeremiah 10:23 (Do what the elders/CO/DO/WTS tells you)

      Wealth is the key to happiness: "The love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things."?1 Timothy 6:10 (Giving your wealth to the WTS is the key to happiness)

      Paragraph 10

      Solomon (OT example) thoroughly knew and understood God?s Law. He would doubtless (buzzword meaning "not in the Bible, we are assuming") have taken special interest in the instructions that were set out for those who became kings in Israel. Among those instructions was one that stated: "[The king] should also not multiply wives for himself, that his heart may not turn aside." (Deuteronomy 17:14, 17) Despite that clear direction, Solomon acquired seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. Many of these women worshiped foreign gods.

      We do not know why Solomon took so many wives (why not they guessed above), nor do we know how he justified doing so.

      What we do know is that he failed to obey God?s clear direction. The outcome was precisely what Jehovah had warned it would be. We read: "[Solomon?s] wives gradually?inclined his heart to follow other gods." (1 Kings 11:3,4) "Gradually"?but surely?his godly wisdom faded. He drifted. In time, Solomon?s desire to please his pagan wives displaced his desire to obey and please God. How tragic, for Solomon was the one who earlier wrote the word" "Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me"!?Proverbs 27:11.

      The Spirit of the World is Powerful

      Paragraph 11

      Solomon?s example (OT example) teaches us that it is dangerous to reason that because we know the truth (buzzword), worldly influences will have little impact on our thinking.

      Just as physical food affects our body, mental food affects our mind. What we feed our mind shapes our thinking and attitude. Recognizing this, corporations spend billions of dollars each year to advertise their products. Successful ads employ clever words and pictures to appeal to the longings and fancies of the consumer. Advertisers also know that seeing an advertisement once or twice will usually not persuade people to rush out and buy the product.

      Repeated exposure over time, however, often causes consumers to view a product favorably. Advertising works?otherwise, no one would invest in it. It exerts a powerful influence on the thinking and attitudes of the public.

      The WTS knows that advertising works that is why they are in the game of advertising now too.

      http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=/vnr/index.htm

      Paragraph 12

      Like an advertiser, Satan promotes his ideas by putting them in attractive settings, knowing that with time he can win people over to his way of thinking. Through the entertainment field and other avenues (the Internet?), Satan deceives people into believing that good is bad and bad is good. (Isaiah 5:20)

      Even true Christians (only JWs) have fallen prey to Satan?s campaign of misinformation. (news shows on child abuse in the WTS).

      The Bible warns: "The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron."?1 Timothy 4:1,2; Jeremiah 6:15.

      When it comes to child abuse, we know who are speaking misleading utterances, who is hypocritical and speaking lies.

      Paragraph 13

      None of us are immune to the spirit of the world. The winds and currents of Satan?s system are powerful. The Bible wisely admonishes us: "Do not be mislead. Bad associations spoil useful habits." (1 Corinthians 15:33)

      Bad associations can involve anything or anyone?even within the congregation?reflecting the spirit of the world.

      Hmmm---that statement should draw everyone closer at the KH.

      If we were to reason that bad associations cannot hurt us, would we not have to conclude that good associations cannot help us?

      This is bad reasoning but what is the name for it?

      How wrong that would be! The Bible puts the matter clearly when it says: "He that is walking with wise persons (only JWs unless you consider the statement above) will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly."?Proverbs 13:20.

      See that illustrates perfectly why I don?t go to the meetings/assemblies/conventions any more.

      Paragraph 14

      To counter the spirit of the world, we must associate with wise people?those how serve Jehovah.

      Aren?t we supposed to be Christians, associating with Christians?

      We must fill our mind with things that build up our faith (WTS publications). The apostle Paul wrote: "Whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well spoken of, whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy things there is, continue considering these things." (Philippians 4:8)

      As free moral agents, we can choose the things that we consider.

      Are JWs really free moral agents? Can they really choose or are their choices spelled out in the publications and by the elders?

      May we always choose to consider things that will draw us closer to Jehovah (not closer to Christ too?).

      God?s Spirit is More Powerful

      Paragraph 15

      Unlike those who are misled by the spirit of the world, true Christians (only JWs) are guided by God?s holy spirit (through the WTS publications).

      It was to the congregation in Corinth that Paul wrote: "We received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God." (1 Corinthians 2:12) Ancient Corinth was a city enveloped by the spirit of the world. So licentious were most of its inhabitants that the expression "to Corinthianize" came to mean "to practice immorality." Satan had blinded the minds of the people. Consequently, they understood little or nothing about the true God. (2 Corinthians 4:4). Yet, by means of this holy spirit, Jehovah (not Jesus) opened the eyes of some of the Corinthians, enabling them to gain a knowledge of truth. His spirit moved and guided them to make major changes in their lives so that they could receive his approval and blessing. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Though the spirit of the world was strong, Jehovah?s spirit was stronger.

      Paragraph 16

      The same is true today.

      Jehovah?s holy spirit is the most powerful force in the universe, and he gives it freely and liberally to all who ask for it in faith (as judged by the WTS). (Luke 11:13) To have God?s spirit, however, we must do more than resist the spirit of the world.

      We must also regularly study and apply God?s Word (and bible-based WTS publications) in our life so that our spirit?our mental disposition?is attuned to his thinking (WTS thinking). If we do that, Jehovah will fortify us to withstand any tactic Satan may use to destroy our spirituality (compelling child abuse cases on TV).

      Paragraph 17

      Though Christians are no part of the world, they are in the world. (John 17:11,16)

      None of us can totally avoid the spirit of the world, for we may work or even live with those who have no love for God or his ways (are they talking about non-JW spouses, demonizing them?). Do we feel as did Lot (OT example), who was "greatly distressed," even tormented, by the lawless deeds of the people of Sodom, among whom he lived (among whom he "chose" to live after a disagreement over grazing land with Abraham)? (2 Peter 2: 7,8) If so we can take comfort. Jehovah safeguarded and delivered Lot, and he can do the same for us. Our loving Father sees and knows our circumstances, and he can give us the help and the strength we need in order to maintain our spirituality. (Psalm 33:18,19) If we rely on him (and his organization, don?t for get that), trust in him, and call upon him, he will help us to resist the spirit of the world, no matter how difficult our situation may be.?Isaiah 41:10.

      w85 6/1 p. 20 Walk With Confidence in Jehovah?s Leadership

      To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of "the faithful and discreet slave," and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land.

      Paragraph 18

      In a world that is alienated from God (and Christ?) and deceived by Satan (as a snake?), we as Jehovah?s people (not Christians?) are blessed with knowledge of the truth (the only ones according to the WTS). We thus experience a joy and peace that the world does not have. (Isaiah 57:20,21; Galatians 5:22)

      Yes, I have seen the peace between elders as they back stab each other and play out the faults of the members of the congregation, I have seen JWs that haven?t talked to each other in 15 years who anticipate living in the Paradise on earth forever, probably in separate hemispheres.

      We cherish the marvelous hope of everlasting life in Paradise, (carrot)

      where the spirit of this dying world will be no more (yes, all 6 billion dead, that the birds will eat; yes, JWs pray for the deaths of these ones to come soon). May we therefore treasure our precious relationship with God (and Christ?) and be vigilant to correct any tendency to drift spiritually. Let us draw ever closer to Jehovah (and Jesus?), and he will help us to resist the spirit of the world.?James 4:7,8.

      Concluding Comments

      Well, this was the introductory article. The "meat" will be next week. The WTS will once again concentrate on an OT example, David. What do you think the WTS has up its sleeve next Sunday?

      David?s Humility?A Fine Example

      "Do Not Avenge Yourselves"

      "Listen to Discipline"

      (David tries to cover up a capital crime?adultery; covering up child abuse today, how does that compare)

      Do Not Hope in Uncertain Riches

      Present Yourself Approved to God

      Blondie
    1. Leolaia
      Leolaia

      blondie.....Thank you again for deconstructing the language and thought in another WT article. I really like how you point out the loaded language and how it is used to manipulate people. Your marking of stance adverbs and buzzwords is quite good, and I think you would be interested in stuff on discourse analysis that looks in detail at the social effects of loaded language....

      "If we were to reason that bad associations cannot hurt us, would we not have to conclude that good associations cannot help us?" This is bad reasoning but what is the name for it?

      I'm not sure, but "Denying the Antecedent" might be the relevant fallacy. If A, then B. Not A, therefore not B. Spelled out: If bad associations hurt us, then good associations would help us. Bad associations actually do not hurt us. Thus, good associations cannot help us.

    2. stillajwexelder
      stillajwexelder

      Thanks Blondie - I really enjoyed the Adam-Eve-Serpent-deception critique

    3. Maverick
      Maverick

      You're wonderful Blondie!

      This is an,"Us against the world!" study article. The WTS does not want the RF looking at the things of the world, (anything outside the WTS) because they will see how full of crap the WTS is!

      They assume so many facts not in evidence and apply so many points to themselves without qualifications or proof that I hardly know where to begin!

      The only thing that comes to mine is the scene in the Wizard of Oz when you hear the words, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" Maverick

    4. OHappyDay
      OHappyDay
      (David tries to cover up a capital crime—adultery; covering up child abuse today, how does that compare)

      One group of cover-up artists appreciates the work of another....

      They should remember that David's cover-up didn't work, and neither do the Society's many cover-ups.

      There are Nathans everywhere, now.

    5. Flash
      Flash
      The WTS discredits the Bible with all its rules that have no Bible basis, i.e., male members not being allowed to have beards.

      There's an issue I have always had...I'd wear my beard anyway.

      (Mark 7:11-13)

      ...13 and thus YOU make the word of God invalid by YOUR tradition which YOU handed down. And many things similar to this YOU do.

      Your absolutely RIGHT!

      "Jehovah?s servants" leaves Jesus out of the equation; are JWs Christian based on this designation?

      It's like Jesus is a forgotten Hero.

      But until 1983 bestiality was not grounds for a scriptural divorce. The following reference was difficult to find since it is not in the Index and could only be found using the word "bestiality" and searching each WT occurrence. Hmmmmm??.

      YES...I'm still looking to find the 80's WT where the GB at the end of their Pornea debacle decreed "...that whatever state 'they' find themselves in (divorced/re-married/df'd) let them remain in it." ????!!!!!

      Of course, when the WTS "drifts" it is called something else.

      Yea, it's called New Light!

      At one time, the WTS taught that Solomon would not be resurrected.

      Where do they get off saying this stuff...JESUS alone will decide!

    6. jgnat
      jgnat

      Yup, yup, yup. I counted the word "Satan" fourteen times, Jesus zero. Who gets more air time at the Kingdom Hall? I am getting really tired of the steady stream of unsubstantiated claims from the Watchtower that the world is on a steady decline. Amazing posted a great article on the vitality of the modern church. 2004 National Council of Churches Yearbook.

      I have a bad feeling about this article and the next. Will they help or hinder my relationship with my JW associates? Here is an interesting article on where Christianity may be heading:

      The Next Christianity
      We stand at a historical turning point, the author argues?one that is as epochal for the Christian world as the original Reformation. Around the globe Christianity is growing and mutating in ways that observers in the West tend not to see. Tumultuous conflicts within Christianity will leave a mark deeper than Islam's on the century aheadby Philip Jenkins

      http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/10/jenkins.htm

    7. kalela
      kalela

      Blondie, Thank you for all of your hard work! You were the reason that I joined the forum -- I tuned in each week to see what new nonsense was being taught to my mom and sister. Anyway, my comment is regarding your link to the "official office of public information". I copied the quote of Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson because that's the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard. QUOTE: Progressive Understanding for Society in General "People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness. . .and the long-term effects."?Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson Now, I grew up as a JW during the years of shoving the Youth book down our throats. If I remember correctly masturbation, petting, fornication and homosexuality would lead to destruction. It was harmful to the body and poisoned the mind. However, they didn't think that being molested and raped as a child would harm a child emotionally or have long-term consequences. Do they smoke crack? Their lame excuses have gotten more and more ridiculous as the years pass. And my mother is bugging me to take my daughters to the KH so that they'll be taught about God correctly -- I think not! I look forward to next week's "meaty" article. :-) Cheryl

    8. blondie
      blondie

      Thanks, Leolaia,

      I really like how you point out the loaded language and how it is used to manipulate people. Your marking of stance adverbs and buzzwords is quite good, and I think you would be interested in stuff on discourse analysis that looks in detail at the social effects of loaded language....

      It may not seem important, but words do matter. I grew up with manipulative parents and learned on the job about manipulative words/language and how powerful they can be if you are unaware.

      "If we were to reason that bad associations cannot hurt us, would we not have to conclude that good associations cannot help us?"
      This is bad reasoning but what is the name for it?

      I'm not sure, but "Denying the Antecedent" might be the relevant fallacy. If A, then B. Not A, therefore not B . Spelled out: If bad associations hurt us, then good associations would help us. Bad associations actually do not hurt us. Thus, good associations cannot help us.

      I?ll check that out, sounds reasonable.

      Hi Stilla,

      I really enjoyed the Adam-Eve-Serpent-deception critique

      I looked through the whole 2003 WT-CD and could find nothing that gave supporting scriptural proof that Eve did not know it was a real snake. Any other comments by Bible scholars on this.

      Emperor Maverick,

      They assume so many facts not in evidence and apply so many points to themselves without qualifications or proof that I hardly know where to begin!

      And if anyone asks questions or wants proof they will be labeled as "bad association" in the congregation.

      OHD,

      There are Nathans everywhere, now

      Yes, God was made real to David by Nathan. David could have killed Nathan and continued keeping his little secret. But he didn?t. The WTS is trying to kill Nathan.

      Flash,

      I'm still looking to find the 80's WT where the GB at the end of their Pornea debacle decreed "...that whatever state 'they' find themselves in (divorced/re-married/df'd) let them remain in it." ????!!!!!

      I can?t check now but you might check the WT-CD (if you have one) using the scripture where Paul talks about his singleness and the advantages.

      Jgnat,

      Yup, yup, yup. I counted the word "Satan" fourteen times, Jesus zero. Who gets more air time at the Kingdom Hall? I am getting really tired of the steady stream of unsubstantiated claims from the Watchtower that the world is on a steady decline. Amazing posted a great article on the vitality of the modern church.

      2004 National Council of Churches Yearbook .

      Two excellent points. Words are powerful aren?t they. That tells more about Jesus? role in the WTS than anything you and I could say.

      While some of the mainstream religions are experiencing growth, many more religions are vigorous in growth and activity. We drive by 2 churches every Sunday, one Lutheran and one Evangelical, and the parking lots are packed. You can feel the energy.

      Kalela,
      copied the quote of Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson because that's the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard. QUOTE: Progressive Understanding for Society in General "People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness. . .and the long-term effects."?Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson

      There has been some discussion on JWD about this quote and the credentials of Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson. Can someone find that for Kalela? Good point, the WTS tries to fake ignorance. Actually, the first articles (comprehensive ones too) in the WTS publications came out in a 1982 Awake and a 1983 WT about child sexual abuse. The world at large was not ignorant, I worked in law enforcement then and the professional world was informed and knew the bad effects.

      Thanks for all your comments, gems everyone.

      Blondie
    9. jgnat
      jgnat

      Notice that Gail is talking about past perceptions, not what we know today. I am sure she is fully aware of the damage of sexual abuse. I also notice her video clip was heavily edited. Because of her faith, she may be a staunch defender of twenty years of ignorance in the Christian church, and got snaffled in to this interview because of her expertise in this area.

      She founded the Pathfinder Project (not associated with the Mars Mission ;-)

      http://www.pathfinderproject.org/pathistmiss.htm

      Ms. Jackson is a clinical social worker specializing in the area of victimization with an advanced certificate in child and adolescent psychotherapy from the Washington School of Psychiatry.

      She received her BA at Hampton (Institute) University in Hampton, Virginia; and a then went on to earn her Master's in Social Work from the School of Applied Social Sciences at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio.

      Once completing her Master's, she worked for Cuyahoga County Social Services where she was one of the initial members of their sexual abuse Task Team. While in Cleveland, she handled cases related to sexual abuse.

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