Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him.....

sandy

I have been watching a couple of the movies retelling the life of Christ and I was wondering about the words Jesus said to the criminal who asked him to remember him.

The King James Version reads: And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

The New World Translation Reads: And he said to him "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

The movie I was watching quoted or at least was closer to the King James version.

Maybe I am wrong but the same scriptures seem to imply two different things. The King James version implies that the criminal would be with Christ immediately after his death. The NWT doesn't imply a time at all.

Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this?

Islandboy99

where was jesus "today"???? IN HELL

gumby

Jesus as was mentioned....was in the grave for 3 days after he died. He is said to have gone to the wicked spirit world during this time, to pronounce judgement on them. It doesn't sound as though he spent anytime in paradise for those first 3 days.

Gumby

Double Edge

The JW version places the comma incorrectly after the word "today" instead of before the word. By doing so, there is a totally different meaning. KJV is like most other versions of the Bible with regards to this passage, indicating that the criminal would be in Paradise that very day with Christ. JW version suggests Christ is just telling him today that at some undetermined future date the criminal would be with Him in Paradise. Interesting what the slight placing of a comma can do.

BLISSISIGNORANCE

Hi Sandy.

the same scriptures seem to imply two different things

and don't the dubs get mileage out of that scripture.

Well, I was a bad dub because I was a bit lazy in my study. So when the above scripture was discussed in my study sessions I was convinced I had found the 'truth'.

Apparentley in the original Greek, punctuation was not used. So in all translations the comma's use has been guess work. Who knows exactly how Jesus spoke the sentence, where the inflection was and how literal it was meant to be?

The fact is that other religions put the comma in and don't make a big deal about it, because who really knows exactly????? The dubs, on the other hand, use this scripture to discredit all other religions, imply a sinister reason for the placement of it and have taken upon themselves to claim a monopoly on the 'truth'. Yet, the dubs placement of the comma is guess work too. Oh, yeh............... I forgot, they have Jehovah's spirit telling them how to punctuate the bible.!!!!!!!!!!!

So who really knows and what does it REALLY matter??????????

Cheers, Bliss

little witch

Christians understand it to mean God come in the flesh.

Jehovahs Witnesses Don't.

Move the comma prove your case....

Christendom V Witnesses.... Draw your own conclusions...

I am with Bliss, to each their own, and Happy Holidays!

Euphemism

I'm not terribly well versed on this question, but I do understand that the phrase "truly I tell you" was a rather common idiom (it's found a few other places in the gospels), so it seems likely that the majority of translations are correct in their comma placement, and the NWT is wrong.

I don't think, however, that the traditional comma placement necessarily indicates belief in the immortality of the soul. If, as the JWs teach, the soul sleeps until the resurrection, then when the robber awoke in paradise, it would be "today" as far as he was concerned.

peacefulpete

The answer is neither the JW one nor the modern Christian one. On other threads this month Leolaia and I have posted the Jewish and early Christian belief about the realms of the dead. Yes both believed in immortality. I won't overgeneralize as there were many opinions among Jewish sects, yet very current was the thought that in hades there were walled (or separated by chasms) off chambers where the dead awaited final judgement. Those who "deserved" punishment wwere tortured by all conceivable means including fire. Those who did good went to "Paradise". This was the exact word used to describe a corner of hades where the nice dead peope enjoyed the company of Abraham (in some traditions Abraham had become the keeper in hades) and all the other good boys and girls. The statement in Luke reflects one of the early Christologies that had Jesus promising to the thief that he and he will be able to laugh it up in "Paradise" as soon as they died. Later (or possibly concurrent) and more mystic versions had Jesus in the Netherworld for 3 solar days like all pagan solar deity predecesors had. Later yet was the toss in that he went to Tartarus (the land of the demons and the damned underneath Hades, pulled into Judaism from Greek mythology) to snub the fallen angels there.

Rosco

A Paduan

I wonder about the thought of the one next to him

""" Gee, I'm glad he said that he was talking to me today - I was thinking that it was actually tomorrow already """

Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him.....

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