Most JW men aspire to be an elder someday. There is a secret cast system in the Christian cong, and a hiearchy and pecking order in Bethel and in the cong. AS with all things in life, people are in it for themselves and so is the postion of elder in the cong. Behind the facade of spiritual shephered is the desire to rule and to be respected and to be greater than the other person. As a fellow JW this is the relationship that exists between the bros. Real love exist betwenn family members and not betwwen felows. An elder is just doing his job as dictated by the Society. He is an agent of the GB or whoever it is that is the ship's cox. For the most part there is loyalty to the org and the rules of memebership more so than love of flock. An elder has the glorified position of spiritual leader and if he is a bethelite he needs to find the way to clevrly have the local elders do all the work. Assisting people in need in the cong and field is hard word and no one is eager to do it, but there is the eagerness for the title. So bros pioneer and so on and seem to show spiritual progrees by comments meeting attendance and the way neccessary to be appointed but motive of these spiritual works is suspect. the attitude and highmindndness of people that serve in a higher position is evident. The personal qualifications to help someone is not needed for the counsel given by elder does not come from the personal wisdom of the elder but through elder letters that outline how to deal with any situation. Hence the counsel and help is not from an indivial elder qualififications, but from the Society. In actuality, although according to Wt requiremenst for elder appointments are said to be based on Bible, individuals that get promoted to the rank of elder having years and years of training in the congrgation being better qualified than the wordly shmoe or the publisher making spiritual progress to manage and handle the societiy's business are only representatives of the WT POLICy and appointed as such and although such appointmensts are based on Bible qualifications does not mean that God has appointed the peson to do his work. The desire to help others is a noble one, thers is a good feeling that comes from assinting others from the snares of drugs, jail, or an early grave and from helping people and young ones into falling into these pits. THe JW movement , everythjing being considered, does provide assistance and hope and training and education and a new start in life for people in need. It must be the case that there arae many JWS that are in it for noble reasons and not in it for themselves totally. Sitting at the meetings, preaching, and all of the JW activities help individuals to solve or cope with personal problems. Although it seems that that it is easirer to become appointed as an elder nowdays and these bros getting appointed seem to be lacking in human qualities, it is only part of the bigger picture of the way the JW movement is reaching out to help people. Look at it this way It is not the singer but the song. All of the evils of the WT conceded, on the other hand people are also helped. not by elder qualities but the JW movement.
fearnotruth22
JoinedPosts by fearnotruth22
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29
Qualifications of Elders
by iiz2cool inin my experience with elders in the past i was counseled for many things, most trivial and stupid, but some were serious issues.
one thing i noticed was that the elders always seemed to approach issues with some preconceived ideas, or they would try to read between the lines rather than actually listen to what i was saying.
others i know have had similar experiences.
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44
to ex-jw's specifically: with what have you replaced your belief system..
by thebeliever inhow do you now understand the world... and your place in it?.
i personally believe in evolution... and also a "higher power"... it seems more and more people are drifting away from organized religion, but they are then left searching for meaning and purpose..... going to college/university and studying a normal curriculum, one is exposed to philosophy, the socrates and platos of history, who in many ways started widespread discussion on such topics as above.
some sort of philosophy has to be studied i believe, just so one can understand the history of man, from that point in time and how we came to christianity in the first place.. however, it is a very personal matter, as we must all find our own answers.. i believe it is natural for people to be drawn to ponderings of purpose and god, and there are many ways to seek connection to that souce.
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fearnotruth22
THis is a viewpoint: The WT is the Apex. IT cannot be replaced with another system. When a person finaly realizes that "sheol" cannnot be beat, that sheol cannot be conned, that sheol cannot be bypassed, that sheol has taken the life of everything born on earth, and, hence, it will take your life too. Closer and closer it gets till it catches us all.
The VISION "You can live forever in a paradise earth" has failed. Millions once living are now in Sheol dead. The 1800's the 1900's the 2003. Any closer and the GT will catch us from behind.
How can that belief system be replaced. ONly disappointment, a realization, no replacement.
No wt disciple can ever let go of the hope or the dream: Never to die, to cheat Sheol.. Every x y or z wt disciple hopes in desperation" Maybe "I" will never die.", even though the facts show otherwise.
THe only thing that makes any sense assuming that God is a loving father , is that God has everything figured out and that he will save humanity no matter what people do. Theocratic organizatins, and the like can try do what they can to help, but there is nothin really humans can do. It is all up to God. No thanks to any belief system for any cure of desease, or making life easier and less of a burden. Many thanks to science. Science has helped people NOW when they really need assistance. God helps us now too I believe. He helps us emotionally and gives us mental peace. The theocratic kings of Israel were murderers, idolators,and among the most wicked of men, so enough of theocratic organizations, as much as they can help too.
Thanks to God for giving life and also for his comforting promise of salvation. Will he come a killing and destroying a human race of people guilty of being born and doomed to die. No relief during peoples life but sure there will be PROMISED relief later on. Suffer NOW, get your promised relief later.
It is not up to man to change his ways, or to DO something, but up to God to make his move. Not a killin and a punishing but as a loving father to help ALL creatures even the cockaroaches.
"he is openning up his hand and satisfying the desire of EVERY LIVING THING" assuming that is true.
. Enough has been said and promised.
It is up to God and not to human deeds and belief systems.
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47
Question to all JW
by JesusFreak88 in.
what makes the watch tower organization the authority of the scriptures?
the bible does not say any thing about a watch tower.
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fearnotruth22
Truthfuly, the Bible does not say anything conclusively about anything. In symbols, in representations, figuratively, and on and on, ambiguously, but no clear definition as to what anything means.
It took Jesus to explain just what the Old Testament MEANT in PARABLES and on and on, and still things are not clearly understood for a fact. That is not to say that the Bible is not from God, neither can it be said that the Wachtower is not God's agent because the Bible does not meantion a wt specifically. The WT claims to be God's agent, prophet, proxy, whatever that means. The Bible not mentioning the WT specifically does not mean that it is not what it claims. God knows what he means. God also knows the meaning of what he wrote in the Bible, and also if he did "inspire" it, and just exactly what does 'inspire'" means as he defines it. Many people in the days of Jesus were not convinced of Jesus identity. And today the jews and many other religions reject xtianity after having examined the "Bible" are still not convinced of Christianity. Yet a lot of people are convinced of their doctrines using their logic leading to their conclusions, or as true belivers using eroneous logic.
On the one hand the ransom makes sense, on the other hand if Jesus PAID for sins why is human suffering required from God? Why do people still die for a debt that is paid in full? Jesus said I am comming quickly thousands of years ago. Honestly, "quickly" does not mean thousands of years to the person waiting for Jesus.
The WT is the authority on the Bible, whatever that means. I beleive that if God did have a rep on earth today it would be the wt.
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
Expabrit:
In My opinion the tax returns and the comamerica sheet you posted about the WTS and the PHm companies is a valuable contribution to this board, and I personally thank you for the information. It is very interesting and very much appreciated by me.
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
HAWKAW you are a victim of your erroneous thinking. EF failed to disclose all of the facts about the PHM Morris meaning more than just tobbaco on his initial Post. AZtec had to do that for him putting a different spin on Efs Post.
Dont jump to conclusions about what I believe. All That I have said is that the derrived benefits from the PHm Morris Companies as stated on the sheet posted by ef does not prove that WTS is involved with Tobacco.
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
Expabrit:
Your initial post on the wts and PHM is very interesting.
I have always believed that knowldege of involvement, or gaining or loosing money from tobacco stocks is not the issue. Only issue is involvement in any way in tobacco to seek gain because it is your business to know what you are involved in. Since the WTS condemns tobacco use, if they were also to make money from it, then they could not remain silent but would have a lot of explaining to do and would have to be very convincing to get out of that pickle. Because if one condemns Tobacco use and also wants to make money from tobacco then he would be full of bologna I think.
What I do know however is that, Your reasonings do not show, no matter how convincing they are, and with what conviction you advocate them, that the WTS is involved somehow with tobbacco. The link you posted in your last post is only reasonings and views, not evidence showing that the wts is involved somehow with tobacco stocks.Although you have personally concluded this is the case, and are evidently very convinced of your views. Your resolute conclusions and accusations are not supported by your logic as it is neither supported by the Comamerica sheet showing trade in the PHM companies. You have failed to linkthe WTS to Tobacco
If you could prove, not with your reasonings but with evidence that the wts is involved with Tobacco seeking gain, I would not reject such evidence. UNtil then.
fearnotruth
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
Jgnat.
The Atria Weblink posted on this board clarifies your misunderstanding. The Society invested in the Philip Morris Companies not in PHM USA. Don't jump to conclusions.
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
Emperor
Thanks for your view, however my post was directed to to person that posted the evidence suggesting that the WTS is investing in Tobbaco. You are free to believe in what you like and conclude what you like. You can even belive that I am wrong if that makes you happy But your reasonings do not prove the WTS invests in Tobacco. In my post to Expatbrit I humbly open mindedly and objectively said to correct me if I am wrong with respect to any additional EVIDENCE posted that I may have overlooked, not for your reasonings that prove nothing.
The information about Atria that Aztec posted clearly shows that PH Morris means more than tobbacoo as Expabrit failed to disclose with his post. According to the info PH posts in the Atria website link posted by aztec. PhM on or about 2003 changed their name to ATRIA to "clarify msiconceptions about PHM..." as stated in their website. They also state that PHM now ATRIA owns General Foods besides Kraft and other non tobacco industries. This informatiom is important. Expabrit also failed to disclose this on his initial post accusing the wts of investing in tobacco. That is deceptive. You may want to take the time and carefuly read some of the info in the Atria website posted on this board. What is relevant is any information showing WTS investing in tobacco. If you have any post it.
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
To Expabrit:
The evidence you have posted namely the WT benefiting from the PH Morris CompanieS does not prove conclusively that the Society derrives moneys from Tobbacco. All you show is an investment in the PH Morris CompanieS whatever that means. Although you appear to state that investing in PH Morris means WTS investing in Tobbaco, and that the PH Morris only means tobacoo, and that the other industries owned by PH Morris are traded SEPERATELY and not included in the PHM companie"S" stated in the Comerica sheet you posted, you have not proven that. I am not eager to convict the WTS of propheting from Tobbaco when that has not been established as fact on this Board. It must be proven that the Society is making money from Tobacco. You have not done that. Hence, the accusations you make against the WT with regard to Tobacco are unfounded and unfair. A case first must be proven before judgement is passed
. You have not posted any more evidence, just made more statements. Kindly correct me if I am wrong.
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207
The Watchtower & the cigarette company
by expatbrit ini: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications
1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking
*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.
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fearnotruth22
The Society is clever enough to understand the ramifications of making money from tobacco. The Philip Morris Co although involved heavily in the tobacco industry, also owns other non-tobacco interests and investments that have nothing to do with tobacco. As devils advocate, an investment in the Philip Morris Co by the WT Society does not mean that they are making money from Tobacco. The Tobbaco companies pays billions in taxes Every individual in the USA benefits personally from tobacco revenues in one way or another although not individually advocating or involved directly in the manufacture, production, or sale of Tobacco products. I am not persuaded to believe that investing in the PH MORRIS Company definitely means involvement in the Tobacco business for profit, and advocacy of Tobacco use.