Yesidid - No, my father did not share his confidential meetings with me. He was and still is one of the "strict, by the book" JW's. To a fault, I might add. No, I learned so many secrets the old fashioned way. I paid attention to everything going on. For example - the phone rings at our home. I answer. It's brother so-in-so, asking to speak to my father. He picks up the extension in his office. I can and do one of several things. Hang up, cover the receiver and listen, or start paying attention to that brother and his family. Before to long I see his and his wife arriving in different cars. Then they no longer hold hands during prayer. The microphone privelage for that brother is suddenly removed, leaving me scrambling for replacements. The wife disappears after the meeting, into a back room with my dad and 2 other "elders." Before to long we get either an announcement of disfellowship, or better, a pointed talk, usually about the dangers of sex, sexual acts, sexual movies, sexual whatever. It does not take a genius to figure out what was going on and who was doing who. I could see it bouncing across the hall, a sly glance here, a hurried conversation there. Really, if you paid attention, you could see it all. And I did. And like I said at the top, I sometimes heard it on the phone or read the notes in my fathers office at a later date. I liked to snoop. I will say again, that my father did not violate the rules. I am sure many do and did, but he was not one of them.
pmljohn
JoinedPosts by pmljohn
-
33
Watchtower Organization.... A "Sexual paradise" What do you think?
by koolaid-man injacqueline claims there are many jehovah's witnesses obsessed with sex.
she states that the watchtower org.
is a "sexual paradise".
-
-
-
33
Watchtower Organization.... A "Sexual paradise" What do you think?
by koolaid-man injacqueline claims there are many jehovah's witnesses obsessed with sex.
she states that the watchtower org.
is a "sexual paradise".
-
-
pmljohn
I am not familiar with 'Koolaid Man' and his postings. I wrote my response based on my experiences. If I was to speculate, I would think that "sexual paradise" as it relates to the WTBTS and JW's, is more in line with what I experienced, than some bacchanal orgy-like environment. Honestly, I never saw that kind of behavior while inside. But the reality is, is that when you teach people, in detail, all about sex and every sexual act, some are going to want to know more. As I said above, I saw so many people come to my father, in great turmoil and hurt because they acted out on some sexual proclivity. Marriages ruined because 2 people, from different marriages, decided to sleep together. Young men and women, torn up because they masturbated, or worse, touched each other through their clothing. The list goes on and on, and I am sure the same issues and problems are there today.
The point I was trying to make was this. If you teach sex, talk about sex, constantly, then some will act upon what they have learned. But why does it start with children? Why is it important that I, as a 10 year old boy, needed to know in detail, numerous sexual acts? It messed with my mind and I am certain it does with many others. The JW's are a sexualized bunch. I would bet, based on my interactions with others in other religions, that JW's talk sex way more than any other religion. That is what I feel constitutes the "sexual paradise" that Koolaid mentioned. Maybe not, but either way, there is and was a lot of sexual activity happening in the org.
Beyond that, I cannot speak to anything else Koolaid Man or anyone else for that matter, says about the JW's. I can only share my experiences. But, like the political blogs I participate in, there are always those individuals who nit-pick, distract, and change up subjects without offering anything of value. I really hate to see that kind of behavior here, where all any of us want to do is share our experiences, learn some new points, and hopefully grow into better human beings than what we once were. That is all.
-
33
Watchtower Organization.... A "Sexual paradise" What do you think?
by koolaid-man injacqueline claims there are many jehovah's witnesses obsessed with sex.
she states that the watchtower org.
is a "sexual paradise".
-
-
pmljohn
Having been raised in a JW household, son of the "Presiding Overseer," and privy to many a confidential meeting, I can say that YES, YES, YES, the WT Org is, or at least was, a sexual paradise. In 20+ years, I saw and heard of so many issues involving sex and JW's. And even if you take away all of the "sinners," there was still the complete obsession with sex and anything sexual.
I have expressed to my wife, (not raised JW, and not JW) how much information I had in my head, from a very early age. Before I was a teenager, I was not only aware of terminology like Incest, Masturbation, Bestiality, Homosexuality, Fornication, Adultery, Necrophilia, and numerous other words, but I also knew what they meant. What child needs to know that kind of information? Because of the introduction and subsequent forbidden nature of these things, I was, like many normal kids, curious to know more. What was masturbation all about? What does fornication look like? I was finding a way to view porn (old Playboys) in grade school. And as I grew older, I turned to shoplifting, stealing Penthouse magazines from the convenience store and hiding them in the basement. I grew up so sexualized and in tune with what I shouldn't be doing, that I had no idea what was right, what was wrong, safe or unsafe. I am extremely lucky that I did not get a disease, get someone pregnant, or get arrested.
When I got older, and got married, to a JW, we both had a warped sexuality. Obviously we had relations as husband and wife, but because of the input of sexual "advice" and the denial of so much growing up, we eventually started seeking out other, less than acceptable thrills. Sex in public. Sex on airplanes. Sex in the Mall. Outside the club. Eventually, our marriage became open, each of us seeking more and more sexual thrill. And, as I am sure you all know, that ended badly. We worked less and less on our actual relationship, each seeking a different path. And, soon enough, we divorced.
After completely separating myself from this cult, I started to see how chaste and appropriate those "worldly people" behaved. Many of the people I met had not had sex with multiple people. No one I met had open marriages. Of course there was the random cheater, but honestly, even they behaved and treated their partners better than I did and many JW"s I was associated with, did. I realized that, if sex was not discussed so early, if it was not treated as something so horrible and bad, I might have had a much more balanced view of the whole thing. As it stands, I still desire some of the "porn-like" behavior, but my wife (2nd and last) loves me, has helped ground and balance me, and I am a better person because of that. And as far as my children, both 13 years of age.....they are aware of sex and certain sexual terms. But they do not surf porn (yet), they do not sneak and watch inappropriate television, they are not stealing or sneaking out for porn or sex. They are 13, innocent as much as they can be in this Internet age. And I am raising them to respect the act, to know right from wrong as it pertains to sex, and they are accepting and understand what they are and are not supposed to do. Is it perfect?? No. But it is better than the sexual paradise that I grew up in as a JW.
-
21
Do You ENJOY The Holidays & Birthdays Now That You Can Celebrate Them?
by minimus inwhether it be father's day, mother's day, christmas or even a birthday, do you actually enjoy the celebrations, the spending of $$, and all that these festivities entail?.
or would you rather be a jw (just) for those times and not deal with it all?.
-
-
pmljohn
Honestly, I could take them or leave them. Not celebrating for the first 25 years or so of my life, kind of made the holidays a moot point in my head. But I do enjoy the family aspect, being able to gather together and just enjoy. I don't attach any spiritual or religious significance to any of the holidays, which probably makes for a more enjoyable experience. I do see the materialism associated with the holidays, which was so ingrained as a JW. But we do what we can afford, making sure to make it more about the time together than for anything material.
I am a bit saddened that my parents have to miss their grandkid's birthdays. That always will be to me, a ridiculous rule and horrible interpretation of scripture.
John
-
4
Do you know me - Do you remember?
by pmljohn ingood morning all,.
i would love to get into contact with anyone on this site that knew either myself or my family.
we moved around alot over the years, living in multiple states and attending many congregations.
-
-
pmljohn
The name, Jonathan Smith, does not ring a bell. However, my uncle was a Circuit Overseer for decades. Bob Schlegel. He too moved around the country, serving many districts and now he is retired. I used to visit them, and let me tell you this. CO's and DO's live like kings. And when my family lived in NY, we had numerous Bethelites out to our home, taking them fishing, waterskiing, out to dinner, etc. And at the end of a fun filled weekend, we sent them back to the city, with a pocketful of cash. My dad did this pretty much every weekend, for years. Now, my mom and dad are broke, needing assistance from my sister. They put nothing away because to this date, they still believe the end is right around the corner. So sad.
-
4
Do you know me - Do you remember?
by pmljohn ingood morning all,.
i would love to get into contact with anyone on this site that knew either myself or my family.
we moved around alot over the years, living in multiple states and attending many congregations.
-
-
pmljohn
Good morning all,
I would love to get into contact with anyone on this site that knew either myself or my family. We moved around alot over the years, living in multiple states and attending many congregations. I would love to re-connect with anyone from those places.
My dad was/is an elder and PO in a number of places - North Dakota - Nebraska - Kansas - Colorado - New York and Washington. His name is H. Lockwood and my name is John/Toby Lockwood. My sister and I have both moved on to better things, mainly free thinking. Our parents are still active and involved in the cult, but they are too old to change now. We have accepted that and to a point, they accept us.
I would love to hear from anyone that might have crossed paths with us. I cannot remember many names, but once I hear a story or two, I am sure it will come flooding back.
Take care and have a great day!!
John Lockwood
-
43
How miserable are Witless Kids REALLY?
by hamsterbait in25 years ago i lived in an apartment overlooking the grounds of the local high school.. at the time i still totally believed the lie.
a lot of the dub students went to my hell.. i noticed looking out my window, that the witless kids always looked miserable and isolated.
yet in the kingdumb hell they would behave almost euphorically.. what was going on?.
-
-
pmljohn
How miserable was my childhood? To be honest, I can't remember a lot of it. I attribute that to the massive double life that I led, from a very early age. I led that double life because of all the restrictions that my Witness parents placed upon my sister and I. We were not allowed to do any of the things that all of us that grew up Witnesses know we were not allowed to do. No "wordly" friends. No school activities outside of regular class. No sports. No dances. No video games. No Van Halen. No Led Zep. Hell, there was a time where I was not allowed to have a Talking Heads album, because dad thought it was a euphamism for a talking penis. Really!!
All these restrictions, with little substance backing up the reasons for not being allowed to do these things, resulted in my leading of a double life. When I went to school, I was "wordly." When I was at home or at meetings, I was the best freakin' elder's kid you ever saw. I actually made it all the way to Ministerial Servant, giving public talks to the congregation, when the night before I was at a club, drinking and macking on women. I had a fake ID from the time I was 16. My cousins and I lived together in a big house that was basically our version of Animal House. Beer cans, posters, black lights, mess all over, and yes, girls hanging around from time to time. We ran wild, but we kept it so down-low that no one was the wise. It was fun, or so I thought.
As I grew older (18-22), I started feeling guilty. Guilty not because I was violating JW rules, but guilty because I was fooling so many people, myself included. I felt bad for living the JW part of my double life. I felt bad telling people what they could not do, when I was out there doing it all. I felt bad when I saw families torn apart by this crazy religion, parents kicking their kids out for being kids, husbands getting shunned and wives stuck in love-less marriages, all because of JW rules. Rules designed to keep the masses down, keep them quiet, keep them unquestioning. It sickened me. But I was a coward. My dad was a big shot in the organization. My uncle was a CO. My family was JW, thru and thru. So I continued leading that double life, into my first marriage and all the way into my late 20's. Eventually I came to my senses. Eventually I saw and heard enough to put my foot down, for myself, and get out. I just left. And guess what?? Very few people seemed to care. Of course my family did/do. They try to "encourage" me, showing me articles and scriptures from time to time, all with the intent of getting me back in the fold. I ended up getting divorced and re-married. I have a son and step-daughter. Her dad is a new JW. I am scared to death of her having to even deal with a bit of what I had to deal with. Fortunately she only goes to his home for the summers, and I have been laying the groundwork to show her, very clearly, why that path is not the right way. And she seems to see it. Despite wanting to please her dad, she see's that what she would lose, is way more important than what she would ever gain.
So, growing up JW, for me, was kind of tough. But it was tough in different ways. I have seen and heard so many horrible stories in my life, all related to being JW. The lack of balance is amazing. The mind control is sickening. I feel for every young person and new adult that becomes or is forced to be a part of this cult. I have a happy, single track life now. I have not led a double life for years now. And my sanity is in place, I feel good and I am happy. And my family is happy. That is what I imagine a loving god would want for his creations. Not what JW's think and preach.
With all that said, I have to complain. Over and over again I read posting from some who do, in my estimation, a dis-service to all of us ex-JW's. There are some who continue to use childish, stupid wording like "Jehova Witless, Washtowel Slaveholdery, Witchtowel, Pio-sneer," and the list goes on and on. WHY?? How do you think that looks to those JW's, some who might be on the cusp of realizing that they are on the wrong path? If you were going to apply for a job at a company that used wording like that, about themselves or others, you would pass. You would move on. You would probably point out how immature such a company was to use words like that. So why use them in your postings? Do you think it makes things better? No, it doesn't. In fact, it de-legitimizes the work that so many of us are trying to perform, that is to save people from this cult. Grow up. Use your adult words. You are angry, perhaps. But try and act like a legitmate adult who cares about what people think of our group, just as we care about how people think of their group. JW's will use any excuse to walk away from sites like this, and juvenile wording will do the trick.
Thanks for reading, and have a great day!
-
5
Documentary...Has anyone proposed doing a documentary on leaving the JW and life after?
by tjlibre ini have an idea for a project which i would like create or contribute to in the future.
this is what i have in mind.
present a brief story of the jw movement, who they are, what are their core believes, etc.
-
-
pmljohn
There is a great book that goes down that road. 'I am perfect. You are doomed!' It chronicles the upbringing of a girl, back in what I think would be the 70's, as a JW. It is pretty funny, sad, funny and actually has a happy ending. I felt like I was reading about my life as I read thru her book. Check it out.
As far as a documentary, I think that would be awesome. I was raised as a JW, with my dad being one of the head elders, my mom a pioneer and my sister and I drug along for the ride. Whether we liked it or not. We did unassigned territory every year. We had parts on the assemblies. We visited Bethel every summer. We worked in the fields upstate NY at the Farm. We did it all. I even pushed thru as far as to become a Ministerial Servant. My sister was a Regular Pioneer. But we always felt we were leading a double life. We always were doing things that would have got us kicked out. I got married and had a wonderful "swinging" time and still stood on the stage, telling people what a particular scripture meant. I actually never felt bad about it either.
Eventually I realized what I was doing. I started to feel something. I started to feel bad about living such a double life. I wanted to be calm, easy, casual, but instead I felt tense, uptight, brooding. As I started doing less and less in the JW world and more in the real world, I started to feel better. I eventually stopped altogether and after a few years, told my parents where I was at and what I would and would not be doing. They are not happy, but, it's my life. And for once in my life, I feel honest. I feel whole. I feel upright and good. I feel that Karma, if it is real, would smile favorably on me. And I don't worry about Armageddon, death, New Systems, anything like that. I feel good. And that is the greatest feeling of all.
-
1
Does Anyone Remember?????
by pmljohn ini am hoping to find some people who remember my father.
or even better, remember my family.
you see, i have been taking some serious medications for back pain, and one of the side effects apparently, is loss of memory.
-
-
pmljohn
Hello to everyone. I am hoping to find some people who remember my father. Or even better, remember my family. You see, I have been taking some serious medications for back pain, and one of the side effects apparently, is loss of memory. It is kind of a bummer because my sister and I are trying to compile our stories of being raised as Jehovah Witnessess, and I am hit and miss on the past.
We moved a lot!! We were in a number of congregations over the country. My dad liked to move, starting way before they adopted my sister and I. My dad and mom have been in "the truth" for pretty much their entire lives. Dad was always and elder, most of the time in charge of the congregation. Of course that meant we were "elder kids." And needless to say, my sister and I both led double lives. I like to think that all the forced deception from leading that double life, perhaps contributes to some of my memory issues. Who knows?? Anyhow, if you remember him, or us, I would love to hear from you. Any stories to fill in gaps would be awesome. So here are the facts:
My name is John Lockwood. I went by the name Toby during my younger years. My dad is Harold. My mom, Kathy. We lived in Devils Lake ND, Wichita Kansas, Rifle Colorado, Gering and Scottsbluff Nebraska and Peconic NY. My parents spent time in California, Wyoming, Montana and Washington. The time frame is from 75' to 96' or maybe present day.
You can email me at the following address - [email protected]
Thank you
-
28
The Worse Mandatory JW Activity You Hated The Most
by Yizuman inof all things jw, what particular mandatory activity you really hate the most that you have to do or attend?.
why do you hate it?.
yiz.
-
-
pmljohn
So I just signed up to this site - I just have to say this before answering the question. Whenever I read postings, be it on gossip sites, political discussions, or religion, I do not understand those people who use ridiculous terminology to describe what they dislike so much. "Field Circus," "Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund," "Littertrash," etc. I see the same thing when discussing politics, people using disparaging terms for Obama, Republicans, Liberals, Right Wing, you name it. The first thing that comes to my mind is the maturity of the people who cannot get over their dislike enough to use real words. It really discounts the seriousness of your complaints. It undermines the poster, because people read that crap and start to question whether or not it was the religion or the person. Did the religion fail the person, or did the person just have a really poor attitude, a lack of maturity, an unwillingness to try? Now alot of us know the real answers, because we were once part of all of this. But for those still in, reading this, or those just looking from the outside, it does not help the cause of real truth much, to read these immature postings.
With that said, I was raised JW, elder father, MS myself at one point. I led a double life pretty much the entire time. I hated the way I felt, and it impacted me well thru my 20's and 30's. The activities I hated most was going to unassigned territories. We lived in NY, and every summer we would load up the trailer and head off to Kentucky, W.Virginia, Wyoming, etc, to go from shack to shack, preaching to the poorest, saddest people in the world. We would drive up streams for roads, 4 wheeling it to get to some trash infested, multi angry dog barking, hovel full of kids with dirty clothes and faces. And then, we would preach. I was offered snakes to handle, had guns pointed at me, got big by dogs and insects, all to preach to these poor people. They did not really care about what the future opportunities were, since they had nothing in the present. And here we were, in our 4 wheel drive Suburban, with our clean, well tailored clothes, carrying leather briefcases and shiny, clean books. This was one activity, of many, that bothered me the most, and I hated the most.