could it be that the proximity of 2014 is at the heart of it?.
i have no contact with jw's - except on this board - but my wife does at times with her family.
imminent is the cry of the sky for the jw's it seems.. i recall the years leading up to 1975 with a lot of that sort of thing.
This thread is so hilarious, thank you for this thread. Y'll are so funny.
...it's only been less than 10 minutes since you first learned that it was imminent.Surely we can pinpoint it better'n that. I've got to be somewhere...I can't sit around for another 30 minutes waiting...
Undercover, lol, but really Jesus doesn't even know the day or hour, just the JW's know, apparently, and they are not telling (beyond that it's IMMINENT).
Rachel
jookbeard, I'm sure it's not that uncommon, what with how sexually repressed JW's are. I was told once by a guy, upon learning that I was raised a JW, that we JW girls were the kinkiest in bed because when we let loose, watch out! (I think this was supposed to be some kind of pick-up line, but I don't think it worked as he had hoped. I sort of found it repulsive and shocking at the time.)
Rachel
i have no idea what i want to convey in words here on this site, and have surprised myself by even joining at all.
i intended just to read, and get a few pieces of information, and now am a member, and spend many hours looking through posts old and new alike.
i am a current jw, born into it, and lets just say i'm in my thirties, female, and a mom of more than your average kids.
Rachel, thank you for hearing me...really hearing me, and validating what I wrote. It's so nice to not be judged, but rather listened too.
You're welcome, Heartbreaker, and thank you!
Question: So you've let go of the idea of being a JW...you think a lot of what you were taught was brainwashing/numbing repetitive OPINION, and you don't buy it. But you've never celebrated anything other than an anniversary, and can't imagine not feeling like the dog that returns to the vomit by starting doing so. How were you able to justify the switch to doing things as "the world" Specifically birthdays. My kids would really like me to come to terms with that one ;)
My advice to this question is this: TAKE YOUR TIME. Don't force yourself to do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. Be kind to yourself. Understand that your feelings toward birthdays and holidays are valid, because of what you were taught as a Jehovah's Witness. But also, be open minded, and see them for what they are. This will take some time.
When I first celebrated my birthday, I did it with my closest, dearest friends and it was very tame. It was exhilarating but also felt weird. Four years later it still feels weird, and the last few years I have celebrated privately with my boyfriend. Maybe just get a small gift for your kids for their birthdays, and have a small cake. It can be a very private affair. I believe the purpose of celebrating birthdays is to let our loved ones know we are glad they are alive and in our lives. Besides the argument for the beheading of John the Baptist, I've heard JW's say it puts too much emphasis on the Creation and not the Creator. I would argue that since we are made in God's image, it really does honor the Creator to celebrate His Creation. (Think about it this way: do you praise your children when they create something beautiful? Is it wrong to admire a pretty drawing or a piece of pottery; is that putting undue emphasis on the thing your child made instead of the child himself? You can see that line of reasoning is just silly when you put it that way.)
I don't celebrate many of the holidays because it just seems very unnatural to me. I don't have anything against them, but I just do what feels right for me in the moment. I had a Christmas tree one year and I just loved it so much. It was so beautiful. But I don't feel the need to have one every year. Just do what makes you feel comfortable.
It will take you some time, but you will begin to see birthdays and holidays for what they really are: opportunities to spend time with our loved ones (and spend money on them if you so wish).
Hope that is helpful,
Rachel
Has anyone ever known of a baptism actually declared invalid?
I know of a girl who got baptized and then that very night got caught drunkenly sucking off a boy at a concert (I know this because I was at the same assembly and at the same concert, and I saw both things with my own eyes, unfortunately). They disfellowshipped her. I would think that would be an instance where they might nullify the baptism, if such a thing existed.
On the other hand, I have heard of things being handled very differently from congregation to congregation; for instance in my congregation they would have FREAKED OUT if I had dared show up with any facial piercings, but then I later learned that congregations in the LA, California area, for instance, many of the young girls had small pretty studs in their noses (or so I was told by someone who grew up as a JW in that area).
For whatever that is worth.
Rachel
as i tuck into some very nice birthday cake today i'm reminded at my many attempts at entertaining jw's over the years.
eventualy i stopped because whenever i invited someone i got told " i don't eat..." wheat, dairy, sugar, etc.
it made catering almost impossible and that was the rare poliet ones.
This kind of stuff happened in my congregation too. I think it's all a ploy to get attention. Jehovah's Witnesses are so suppressed and thus so unhappy that they have to resort to such crap just for attention in hopes of bringing some happiness to their lives. It obviously doesn't work, as many Jehovah's Witnesses are really unhappy people.
Many of the elders and pioneers in my congregation growing up went to an herbal doctor and talked about him like he was their God. It was something my family used to make fun of around our dinner table because we thought it seemed to be idolatry of some sort. It also seemed to be lost on these elders and pioneers that they were practically worshipping this guy.
Rachel
last night i was talking to my son (24 years old) and he was telling me about his life growing up as a jw, .
very frustrating for him, he couldn't have friends from school over, no joining clubs, sports, etc - etc.. but a very interesting point was made, and i never thought about it and it has been rolling around all day.
as morphius said.
I have noticed that there is an intense double standard with regards to this nitpicky stuff. In other words, it's okay for the Watchtower to draw such lines but when I point out such inconsistencies to my JW relatives they say I'm obsessing over unimportant details. Those same details that are only important if they are dictated by the WT to control the flock.
The real purpose in condemning things, as far as I can tell, is to keep the JW's as freakish and abnormal as possible so that they do not fit in with anyone but other Jehovah's Witnesses. It keeps the retention rate up.
Rachel
Edited to say: it looks like I could have just said "what PSacramento said."
has anyone read this book?.
i figured i had to comment because everyone was telling me oh tim, youre going to love this book.
she went to the same assemblies as you, she was raised in a similar household, she did poetry slams as well.
I find that hard to believe, mathematically there are at least 5 million ex-JWs out there and there's no way the usual is to fall into those stereotypes. I also don't think that they're normal, why are people so offended by racial stereotypes but us ex-JWs are cool with being stereotyped by active JWs? I find it offensive purpotrating a stereotype. I'm irish as well, one of the stereotypes is that irish people drink too much. I don't drink at all and many irish people I know also don't drink. Everytime we see the stereotypical drunken irish-man we all get annoyed because it's not true. Or yourself being gay, do you think it's cool when people stereotype all gay people as S&M leather wearing people who will hook up with anyone they feel like?
It's the same thing here.
One more thing: I think you give way too much power to stereotypes. You are never going to be able to control the things other people say. There will always be stereotypes. I think focusing so intensely on the stereotypes in something is not an effective way to accomplish anything, unless what you are trying to accomplish is being obsessed with stereotypes.
You are right that I am defensive about this book; I am defensive because Kyria Abrahams told her story, and you seem to want her to have changed the events just to not prove stereotypes right. It is a bizarre concept to me. It's her memoir. I think the point is to tell what is, stereotypes and all. I guess I feel like you are going beyond saying you don't like the book because of its stereotypes and actually suggesting it was wrong for Abrahams to publish such a book because you think she will do more harm than good to people who might otherwise leave the JW's. I feel that it is very judgmental for you to say such a thing. Don't like a book, fine, but who are you to suggest it shouldn't even exist in the first place?
So, you have NEVER proved one of those apostate stereotypes right? NEVER? (This is a real question, should you choose to answer it.) I find that really hard to believe, though if it is true, I have to say I'm impressed, and also a little bit concerned that you are suppressing some normal things in the name of stereotypes created by a fraud religious organization.
I'm done for real now, I swear. Unless I think of something else. I am not trying to argue though; I am trying to understand!
Rachel
has anyone read this book?.
i figured i had to comment because everyone was telling me oh tim, youre going to love this book.
she went to the same assemblies as you, she was raised in a similar household, she did poetry slams as well.
I started to go through each of your points, Tuesday, and try and respond to them, and frankly the whole thing has gotten so convoluted, it's just not worth it to me. I don't think I'm wrong in what I posted. I don't have ill motives. It seems really strange to me that you are upset that I read into your motives for not liking the book while you simultaneously read into my motives for posting. Are you the kettle or the pot? Never mind, it's rhetorical, please don't answer it, I beg of you. Instead I will post why I like this book, because going around and around arguing with you is going to get us nowhere, as well as annoy all the other posters. And no, that doesn't mean I don't have a number of good arguments in response to your arguments; it just means I really don't want to argue. I'm raising my little white flag here. I would apologize here if I thought it would actually make a difference to you, but I really don't think it will since you seem to think I'm being "sarcastic" and "pissy." (I'm not.) So, without further ado, as they say, what I liked about I'm Perfect, You're Doomed:
To me, Kyria effectively showed just how ludicrous the whole thing is, to fail to teach people how to truly decipher right from wrong, and then condemn them for making poor choices in life. The quote that really sums it up best is in the last pages of her story, where she points out that it’s hard to feel like anything is wrong when you are told that murder is as wrong as eating birthday cake, as wrong as smoking, as wrong as reading books, as wrong as having sex with your friend’s boyfriend.
It’s something I personally refer to as Baby Bathwater Syndrome. All the good things we learned as Jehovah’s Witnesses, when I first left, I lumped everything together, and threw it all out. It was like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Only the bathwater is dirty, the baby is valuable. However, anything that I associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses had to go. It resulted in my making some terrible decisions, and through some painful learning experiences I have slowly been bringing those values back into my life that really have nothing to do with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, other than that they really do try to be good people, and as such teach some good moral values.
I applaud Kyria for breaking through those stupid stereotypes and simply telling her story, with wit and humor and candor. She should be applauded. Anyone who reads her book will see how ridiculous many of the Jehovah’s Witness practices are. Her book for me was like a breath of fresh air because she talked on some heavy stuff but approached it in a lighthearted manner. For me, at this stage in my exodus from the JW's, it was a relief to be able to laugh along with her, rather than feeling so heavy-hearted about it all the time, because as we all know, it is some heavy stuff. It was the right book for me in this moment of my life. I have read plenty of others that I loved just as much for very different reasons. I look forward to reading many more books on the subject.
Rachel
has anyone read this book?.
i figured i had to comment because everyone was telling me oh tim, youre going to love this book.
she went to the same assemblies as you, she was raised in a similar household, she did poetry slams as well.
You two people; Rachel, Tuesday - you're the same person, aren't you?
Sass_My_Frass: I don't think so, but how can we tell for sure?
after more than 20yrs without a relationship....after more than 5yrs without hearing a word from her, i called.. out of the blue, i just called.. me: hi, mom, it's me lisa.
mom: oh, hi.. me: well, it's been a long time, i just wanted to check and see how you and dad were.. mom: we're fine.. the conversation ranged from, the weather, my husband, my children and grandchildren, (whom she's never met) my animals, gardening.
we talked about how dad was doing now, (after a stroke) how he walks with a cane, and uses an electric wheel chair when they go to walmart.
Wow, Lisa, I'm proud of you. I hope you will find the courage to call her again. It may get easier in time.
My friend told me recently he cannot approve of my pursuing a relationship with my JW parents unless I accept in my heart once and for all that they are not my role models, but I am theirs. It's almost as though I'm the parent and they are the children. I have to do the right thing and contact them; they feel guilty to call me. I'd rather have to make this first move than for something to happen where I just don't know them at all anymore. We talk every few months or so. It has helped me tremendously to realize this fully, that I am the role model, not them. It's unnatural, but when you are a JW your growth is permantly stunted as we know. So it's true, they are like children, emotionally and spiritually.
The way you have described your relationship with your mother is how I feel about my sister. I don't know her at all. The more time that goes by, the harder it is to muster the courage to call her. When we do talk it is pleasant enough but very forced and uncomfortable at the core.
I hope you call your mom again before too much more time goes by. Sometimes when I'm struggling with something I think I have to do but really don't want to do I have to force myself to imagine which scenario I will regret more. I think you will regret not trying more than the alternatives.
You are a wonderful mother, by the way.
Rachel
