Posts by sinis

42

Source of Flood Waters

by VM44 in

i do not have access right now to the watchtower cd library, could someone check and tell me what the watchotwer now says is the source for the great flood waters?.

do they still believe the theory of isaac vail that the waters came from above and that there was a water canopy in orbit about the earth?

or does the watchtower now say that the canopy was a vapor layer, not in orbit, but a simply above the atmosphere?.

sinis

Great read with clear explanations of the Flood:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/cheo-ms_p_03.html

33

marriage in the new system

by gringojj in

luke 20:33- 36 talks about there will be no marriage after the ressurection.

my wife doesnt understand this and i know nothing about it.

what is the wts stance on these verses?

Not when you look at the context or cross referenced scriptures in Luke, etc. Luke 20:34-38 (RSV), “And Jesus said to them, ‘The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him.’” The Scripture explicitly states that resurrection was the very core of Old Covenant Israel’s hope (Acts 23:6; 24:14-15; 26:6-8). God promised Israel, “I will redeem them from the power of the grave [Sheol]; I will redeem them from death. O Death, I will be your plagues! O Grave, I will be your destruction!” (Hosea 13:14. See also Isaiah 25:8), So the resurrection was not a new concept. Jesus was referring to something more grand when using the terms "sons of this age" and "sons of God". There is a fundamental difference between the “sons of this age” and the “sons of God” in “the age to come.” Jesus said in “that age” (the coming age from his historical standpoint) the “sons of God” are “sons of the resurrection” (Lk. 20:36). The implication is that the sons of “this age” (the then-current age) were under the dominion of sin and death as they looked forward to the resurrection. If this promise of God remains to be fulfilled in a yet-future age, the conclusion is that the sons of God under the New Covenant have not yet been made perfect in and through Christ. These "sons of god" would be the "first-fruits" bought from mankind. These are the holy ones who will co-rule in the kingdom. I do not agree with the Society (at least the current doctrine of heaven) concerning heaven. I do not believe anyone goes to heaven. All scriptures indicate that the kingdom will be ON EARTH and that these individuals will rule ON EARTH. This used to be the stand of the JW's in the early days but not anymore. Those who died before Jesus died will not be kings or priests in god government. That is why the jesus said that John the babtizer, although great, would be lower than the least one in the kingdom. Indicating that John would not be a co-ruler/priest. That privalege would only be opened to those that died after Jesus and where incorporated into the new Covenant.

33

marriage in the new system

by gringojj in

luke 20:33- 36 talks about there will be no marriage after the ressurection.

my wife doesnt understand this and i know nothing about it.

what is the wts stance on these verses?

sinis

This is total crap. I have researched this myself as some in the cong where basically saying if you want "some" you better ger married now. Well the scriptures are referring to the Holy ones, those chosen by god to rule in his kingdom. THINK ABOUT IT, why would god contradict his original purpose of marriage? Does not make sense. It makes more sense (and this is the intent of the scriptures) that the Kingdom of god will be fashioned under the old Jewish priesthood system where the high priests did not marry. Those who served the temple did not marry (Gideon and his daughter). Thus this is referring to those who want and have been chosen by god to partake in kingdom priesthood and kingship - they will not marry. Look at Revelations all those chosen by god must offer there life up. Thus they are resurected and are as angels in the sense as spoken above. Hope that helps.

2

My take on certain doctrines...

by sinis in

1) i firmly believe from my studies/research that the 144,000 is a figurative number and no one but jehovah knows the exact number of those who will be rulers in his kingdom.

i do not know why the wts picks and chooses the literal and figurative numbers in revelation.

makes no sense to me.

sinis

1) I firmly believe from my studies/research that the 144,000 is a figurative number and no one but Jehovah knows the exact number of those who will be rulers in his kingdom. I do not know why the WTS picks and chooses the literal and figurative numbers in Revelation. Makes no sense to me. John at the beginning of Revelation indicates that it is a vision, thus not literal. You cannot accept the number 666 as being figurative but a few scriptures later say 144,000 is literal. That and the tribes are not even literal! Also, if you want to get technical, the only ones who are to be chosen by Jehovah would have to be martyrs, beheaded, etc. to be a ruler/priest.

2) I have come to the conclusion that 1914 is not the year that christ took power and cast satan to the earth. I believe that this is a future date and that we have not even come close to see the wickedness that will prevail when satan is cast down and pissed because he time is short and demise is near.

3) The other thing I have found is that the bible in Revelation, etc. indicates that no one goes to heaven, they will rule ON earth as kings, priests, which is basically a parallel of the ancient Jewish priest setup. All indications in the scriptures is that the reward is safeguarded in heaven. This does not mean that the reward is IN heaven but that the reward is being safeguarded in heaven. Also, the english translation from the original Greek has been mistranslated through the ages. The idea of a heavenly reward did not com into existance until the time of the Inquisition. Hell was a doctrine being promoted at the time as a punishment but the Church realized that they may be executing innocent people. So to but the peoples mind at rest they concocted the idea that if you were good/righteous you would go to heaven.

I did have a question that I could not find an answer to. Since the new covenant was established to forgive men of there sins should everyone partake? I realize the whole two clss thing is a sham also - Jesus when speaking to the Pharasis indicated that others would be a part of this fold - which indicated that he would not just offer the message to the Jews but eventually ALL people. Can anyone provide scriptures, etc. that might indicate that all should partake or is it just reserved for those that Jehovah as chosen to be priests or kings in his government? Thanks.

21

How to tell a close friend...

by sinis in

well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research i have come to the conclusion that the wts/jw's are just another religion.

for me it was not only the un but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "faithful and discrete slave", no "class" distinctions, etc.

i'm not going to turn into a jw basher as some do when they leave - to each his own.

sinis

I can't say what God is.
The Bible expresses a finite God, with form; one that is separate from all else. An infinite God has no form, no boundary which defines beginning and end. So, if it is true that you believe in an infinite God, then please tell me, where is this god absent, other than in old religious beliefs that give witness to a god too tiny to be here now?
j

Perhaps, since the bible was written for man, that Jehovah had the prophets describe him in a manner that was easily understandable by the men of the time. Maybe it is equatable to an ant standing at the edge of the world and told to explain what he sees. Mentally the task would be insurmountable so some other form of representing it would be in order for others to easily grasp the idea.

21

How to tell a close friend...

by sinis in

well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research i have come to the conclusion that the wts/jw's are just another religion.

for me it was not only the un but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "faithful and discrete slave", no "class" distinctions, etc.

i'm not going to turn into a jw basher as some do when they leave - to each his own.

sinis

I have done much research and in the end I concluded that a supreme deity made us,

You have not heard me say that there is no God.
Why do you think it is necessary to reduce God down to an anthropomorphic "deity", little different from the Greek mythological characters you find so intriguing? Is it only because you have not been presented with something far grander, and outside the tiny little religious box.
Please know that I am not attempting to convert you to some other belief, but rather just imply that the source of an INFINITE universe, must be greater than, rather than smaller.
j

OK. You have my attention Spit it out. I do believe that God is infinite. Are you saying that you believe he exists in everything? I don't know. I know we as humans try to minimze things that we do not understand. The bible does mention that he is dynamic energy. So if he is the source of all energy than realistically he is greater than all energy combined.

21

How to tell a close friend...

by sinis in

well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research i have come to the conclusion that the wts/jw's are just another religion.

for me it was not only the un but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "faithful and discrete slave", no "class" distinctions, etc.

i'm not going to turn into a jw basher as some do when they leave - to each his own.

sinis

Sinis,
Since you "seek truth", you have kind of opened yourself up to be presented with what may be lies.
This may be a little early for you to contemplate, but what are the chances you think (or better yet, feel in your heart) that a finite anthropomorphic deity of ancient desert tribes (one of many I might add) is the actual and true Source of our wondrous and infinite universe?
j

I believe that Jehovah, YAHWEH, or whatever the original unknown name is, is the true source of life and creation. I have done much research and in the end I concluded that a supreme deity made us, and has a grand scheme for mankind as accurately outlined in the bible. The believe in a complete/total evolution is not plausible or probable (without stepping on anyones toes :) ).

21

How to tell a close friend...

by sinis in

well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research i have come to the conclusion that the wts/jw's are just another religion.

for me it was not only the un but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "faithful and discrete slave", no "class" distinctions, etc.

i'm not going to turn into a jw basher as some do when they leave - to each his own.

sinis

Welcome Sinis (is that after the old Greek tree-bender?)
You say that you "seek the truth". A word of warning: the "truth" may be far bigger than the Bible, so prepare for that.
Should I go and bite the bullet or tell him how I really feel and risk loosing a life time friend?
Is someone you can not freely and honestly share your feelings with, a true friend? What have you got to lose?
j

Yes, that would be correct. I'm registered under pityocamptes as well. I loved Greek methology in school and found many of the characters intriguing. What do you mean by the truth may be bigger than the bible? Do you mean the bible is a farce? I know what you mean by what sort of friend would not accept certain views, perhaps I will tell him once he gets here.

21

How to tell a close friend...

by sinis in

well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research i have come to the conclusion that the wts/jw's are just another religion.

for me it was not only the un but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "faithful and discrete slave", no "class" distinctions, etc.

i'm not going to turn into a jw basher as some do when they leave - to each his own.

sinis

Thanks! When I look back at the years of service I really don't feel bitter, just a little sad. I believe that the WTS should really look at ststements that have been made or predictions that never happened and apologize to those that have been ship wrecked in there faith. The WTS does have many positives but some of the things that have been done are very serious. In the back of mind I keep wondering if they really are the TRUE religion and I have been duped by Satan but somehow I keep coming back to square one and a little voice that says to test the bible and seek guidance in prayer. I only hope that if I have made the wrong decision that Jehovah will understand and have compassion - something men don't seem to do. I do feel a certain "load" or burden that has been lifted from my shoulders - don't know quite how to explain it.

I sometimes wonder (and perhaps some could give their thoughts on this) if the WTS is being used by Jehovah but they have become corrupt. I wonder if it could be paralled with the Jewish religious system when Jesus walked the earth. The religious system was required by all to follow but they were corrupt and Jehovah was soon to punish them, however Jesus did instruct his followers to do as they say but not as they do. I wonder if there is a similiar parallel today? So many things spinning and so many "what if's" in my mind. Hopefully in time I will be able to 100% reckon for myself the truth in this muddy water...

21

How to tell a close friend...

by sinis in

well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research i have come to the conclusion that the wts/jw's are just another religion.

for me it was not only the un but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "faithful and discrete slave", no "class" distinctions, etc.

i'm not going to turn into a jw basher as some do when they leave - to each his own.

sinis

Well, after much prayerful thought and earnest research I have come to the conclusion that the WTS/ JW 's are just another religion. For me it was not only the UN but also all of the doctrine surrounding 1914. Thus if 1914 is wrong than there is no "Faithful and Discrete Slave", no "class" distinctions, etc. I'm not going to turn into a JW basher as some do when they leave - to each his own. My main motive was that I seek the truth and will continue to do so through research and Bible reading.

The funny thing is I truely feel liberated and realize that I am no longer under compulsion to go to meetings. Meeting here (or elsewhere) or talking with others that appreciate the bible and encourage research and clarity on matters is really all that is important. For by doing such things we are never really forsaking the gathering of ourselves. I would probably take the ultimate step of DA myself but realize that I have friends and family that I would like to keep associating with... which brings me to how I should deal with a good friend of mine.

I have a friend who lives out of state and occasionally visits me. Currently he is a MS and though he may not be a "holy roller" he is very serious about the "truth". Today he called and asked me when the summer assembly was as he wants to come down and visit. I beated around the bush since I have no clue, and told him I would call him in a couple days after I found out. Realistically I don't go to meetings, and probably never will. I had no intention of going to the assembly either. What should I do? Should I go and bite the bullet or tell him how I really feel and risk loosing a life time friend? The funny thing is its not like I am an "apostate" as I'm sure he would label me, but a seeker of truth. Lately, I feel like a heavy load has been lifted off my shoulders - through prayer, research, and study I have chosen the "light load" the Jesus spoke of...