Why bring God when you can do it yourself?

by elbib 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • elbib
    elbib

    When under temptation, one can easily deflate it by simply changing his thoughts and choosing his associations wisely. (Philippians 4:8, 9; 1 Corinthians 15:33) Then why did Jesus teach us to pray to God: “Lead us not into temptation”? (Mathew 6:13)

    In the same vein, there are things which complicated matters: “This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” (Mathew 13:13) Classic example of this is the Parable of Faithful and Discreet Slave in Mathew 24:45. Nobody got it correctly!

    It shows Jesus may not have spoken such words because of the fact that he did pray for unity among his disciples. (John 17:20, 21)

  • DJS
    DJS

    God is no different than drugs, alcohol, food or whatever else that weak minded and undisciplined humans have turned to in an attempt to rationalize/excuse or 'help' them when the real and only problems are:

    A Lack of Personal Accountability and Personal Responsibility.

    Until we accept that each of us does have the internal character and strength to make better decisions and overcome or mitigate our predispositions and/or desires, we will never reach the potential locked in our DNA.

    The two most powerful forces in the universe are personal accountability and personal responsibility. The devil didn't make you do it. It is your fault. There are consequences for each decision you make, and there is no imaginary person in the sky who can help you.

    If some of you would start repeating this as a mantra and then applying it in your lives you would be amazed at the changes and improvements.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    While the way these texts you quote are precise formal-equivalent or word-for-word translations, these types of renditions can cause readers problems if they read them as if they were written using English idiom. This is all that is causing confusion.

    For instance, if I were to say: "What is the count of years in your possession?" That is an accurate word-for-word translation of a Spanish phrase. But it might confuse English readers because it follows Spanish idiom. We don't say the phrase this way in English. Instead we say: "How old are you?" Note the vast difference?

    Whereas word-for-word Bible translations lend to great study, they often lend little to comprehension for readers, especially those who know little about the idiomatic terms unique to the cultures, eras, and languages of the Scriptures.

    In ancient Hebrew culture, prayerful speech attributes all things, good and evil, to God. It is not a literal means of expression, but meant to imply that divine providence can allow evil only for the eventuality that God will deal with it at the proper time. Idioms are forms of speech often hard to fully appreciate outside of understanding the original language, and even by the time Jesus uttered the words of the famous Lord's Prayer, this type of speech was somewhat archaic. Judaism had already begun to stop attributing evil to God in its theology during the Second Temple era, but the liturgical language of prayer still reflected Biblical speech of pre-Babylonian exile which still did that.

    "Do not lead us to temptation," actually means "do not let us fall prey to our temptations" or "give us the strength to face our tests successfully." The expression could actually be rendered "spare us from the hour of test" in reference to what some in Judaism called the "Messianic woes," times of testing that would come from the evil one or persecutors expected by some Jews in the Messianic era.

    A similar vein is understood in reference to the use of parables by Jesus. Some of the Hebrew Scripture accounts, while apparently based on historical figures, are actually parable-like morality stories that often take great liberties with dramatic license for teaching purposes. The first few chapters of Daniel are such an example as is the entire book of Jonah. When people read these as literal accounts they come to wrong conclusions in the end, like the Watchtower has for 100 years.

    Jesus used the same type of teaching genre, offering stories which obviously could not be literal which were designed to make people ask questions of him. For a person to be a disciple in Judaism, they often had to approach a rabbi several times with a question before a direct answer was given them (some in Judaism do something similar today). The teaching technique demonstrates the student's seriousness of resolve to find an answer and the rabbi's desire to teach the disciple how to think for themselves to find right answers.

    The parables are the same. If people were not serious about learning from Jesus, they would not inquire and follow him to ask for an explanation. Those that would, Jesus would often act like many rabbis still do, acting surprised that the student didn't understand. It's just a Hebrew teaching technique, like methods used at the college level in universities which are used by professors to weed out true students from those who are just warming seats, so to speak.

    The expression about why Jesus speaks in parables that you quote is also a Semitic idiom. It can be rendered: "I teach in parables to teach them that they don't currently look deep enough into things, nor do they listen with deep enough intent, nor do they really use their brain to think." Jesus wanted unity, but not followers who had little more interest than "passing the class," to use a current modern idiom.

  • elbib
    elbib

    David Jay,

    Nice to hear the details, and it make sense. However, result of such communications in the Bible served no purpose except creation of sects like JWs.

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    You are correct, elbib. Employed in the fashion employed by the Witnesses, the Scriptures are confusing.

    The Witnesses, as you are likely aware, follow a popular principle that many of the other New Religious Movements of America's Secong Great Awakening adopted. Invented by the bishop-turned heretic Marcion of Sinope, they read the Bible as if it is God's ultimate, final, and exhaustive authority and form of revelation. This gnostic principle is opposite of Christinaity which in contrast views Jesus Christ as the basis for their religion, and the Scriptures as a product of this revelation.

    Marcion taught that the Gnostics were correct that only a select minority was chosen by God to be saved from the evil world, but that the Gnostics were equally wrong in saying that no one else could gain salvation. The Gnostics claimed that "salvific knowledge" or "gnosis" was hidden in the holy writ of religions, and only the chosen minority could understand these secrets. Marcion believed the holy writ was limited to Paul's epistles and an edited form of Luke's Gospel, but that this select group could teach this "gnosis" to followers who would need to follow and hang on to every word of the chosen ones less they perish with this world.

    Oddly, Marcion was reportedly "surprised" when he was excommunicated and stripped of his position for his teaching. But his ideas and followers never really died off. The Church Fathers eventually had to develop an official canon of liturgical and teaching texts in response to Marcion's challenge, but the idea kept rising up over the centuries.

    The American era of the religious awakening revivals rejected traditional religious ideas, including those of the Reformation. Marcion's ideas became popular once again, with the Bible being used as if it was an exhaustive, all-encompassing revelation from God. The problem was that each new group saw themselves as "chosen" by God to bring the only truth that had been "hidden" in the holy writ of Judaism and Christianity...until their new "chosen" group appeared that is.

    Read disconnected from the original relgious liturgy and traditions by which the texts were created, the Bible gives quite an incomplete picture. These groups took advantage of the resulting incomplete picture created by disconnecting them from traditional religion, claiming the traditions that shaped the text were all of human or evil origin, and that without following the select chosen leaders of these "Last Day restorationists," the hidden and saving knowledge of the Scriptures could never be discerned.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Thank you David_Jay for your in depth and informative posts - it drives me mad that the Witnesses base their whole theology on a book ( Daniel) that the Jews don't even consider a PROPHET! They are considered part of the " writings" in Judaism .
  • elbib
    elbib

    David_Jay,

    Again thank you for your in-depth analysis of "Last Day restorationists."

    The mammoth size of scriptures with their infinite possibilities of interpretations in any direction people like, and also the huge number of religions and sects show that this cannot be God's way of communicating with mankind. Besides, look at the level of intolerance religious leaders manifest when sincere disagreement expressed by a believer. They will go to any extent in human rights violations. This too shows that such agencies cannot be instruments of God

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