Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

by Terry 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry
    I found this concerning Michael Jackson and Jehovah's Witnesses:

    His make up artist for 30 years Karen Faye wrote on her blog:

    "When Michael arrived for his photo shoot for THRILLER, two men accompanied him impeccably dressed in suits, who sat over to the side on some cushy couches and watched his every move.

    Since this was the first time I worked with him, it didn’t feel appropriate for me to ask who they could possibly be. I thought if he wanted us to know, he would have told us. I just felt their presence throughout the entire day. They left with him as mysteriously as they had entered with him. At the time I really did not give it another thought, because I had no idea of the adventure that was ahead of me.

    The next shoot, there again…a mysterious gentleman, sitting in the background.

    As our working relationship and friendship began to grow, I asked. He explained to me he was a Jehovah’s Witness. He was very active with the church, and these gentlemen were monitors. They watched over him. He also explained he went to bible study, and spent time going door-to-door teaching the word each week. I had to take pause for a minute and think about that one….

    THRILLER had been released by the time he was explaining this to me. “You mean to tell me, that you ring someone’s doorbell, they come to answer it, and there stands Michael Jackson??????” He gave me one of his hi pitched belly laughs…and said, “yeah”. He further explained that he does it in disguise.

    “Oh no you don’t.”

    Still giggling, he paused and got amusingly serious. “Yeah, sure. After they let me in, they usually begin to look at me funny, so I end up admitting who I am.”

    “Wow, I wish I could be a fly on the wall and watch that. I still can’t believe you do that.” I said.

    “It is a big part of being a Jehovah’s Witness. We also do not celebrate holidays or birthdays. We believe that we should honor and celebrate these things daily, and not have just one day.”

    So I asked “No birthdays. No Christmas?”

    “No” he replied.

    “Isn’t that difficult, when the world around you is decorating and singing carols?”.

    “Yes, Turkle…it is always kind of sad, especially when I was a child, because it looked like so much fun. But it is okay; we have things like FAMILY DAY, where we all get together. There are hundreds of Jackson’s and we all try and be there.”

    I could genuinely see the sadness in his eyes and the sense his feeling of loss, not celebrating Christmas with the other kids…so I changed the subject.

    One August 29th, we ended up working. Everyone was wishing him Happy Birthday and giving him little presents. He smiled and graciously accepted them. Once we were in the privacy of the trailer, he put the gifts down on the seat, and looked down at them.

    “I wish people wouldn’t do that. Please promise me, Turkle, don’t EVER say Happy Birthday to me.”

    We were shooting SMOOTH CRIMINAL. I was accustomed to the monitors by now. The filming was going on longer than planned, as usual. We were preparing for a very big scene. Michael was surrounded by the alien battalion in a gully, built on stage 14.

    The special weapons and ammunition team had briefed Michael on how to hold the machine gun and fire it. It was the last scene of the evening. Michael was having fun with it, like a little boy playing army. He took a strong stance, and fired as the cameras rolled.

    That was a wrap for that evening, and we were given our call time for the next morning.

    Michael was a little late arriving the next day. I was waiting in his trailer. He walked in so distraught. I didn’t understand, we were having so much fun the night before. He was silent as he sat in the makeup chair. I had to ask him please tell me. Please tell me what is wrong.

    His eyes welled up with tears. “Mother called last night. The church called her, and told her that I held and fired a gun yesterday. They ordered that I have to make decision. I must leave the church, or leave the entertainment industry.” He was weeping as he uttered those words.

    I was quite mortified. “What did your mother advise you to do?”

    “She felt horrible. She told me it was up to me. She said she would stand by me with whatever I decided.”

    “I see, you are here today”.

    “Yes”

    “Mother is supporting my choice”.

    It took a while for Michael to adjust to his choice. He continued to feel uncomfortable with his birthday, but attended fan events in his honor, and truly enjoyed them.

    When I was around him during Christmas, he would hide in his own closet to secretly wrap presents. He still held a tinge of guilt. I knew it was difficult for him, but I know he loved all the decorations that NEVER came down. He could freely give his children the birthdays that he never had. I knew deep down inside the Jehovah Witness teachings continued to hold a sacred place inside of him. That is why I was forever torn by not saying “Happy Birthday”. He never released me from my promise to not say it to him."
  • Terry
    Terry
    sir827 hours ago

    How did Michael Jackson get away with NOT being Disfellowshipped?

    MJ was DF'ed in the 80's. Or disassociated. Either way, he was (or should have been) shunned by JWs.
    _______________

    I have tried to find some kind of citation for the DF claim and have come up short. Do you have anything you could share?

    michael jackson letter to elders 1987

    Here is a pretty complete article:

    http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/michael-jackson-jehovah.php

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    Prince pretty much got away with being a celebrity JW, didn't he?

    Completely yes, and dare I say that he could have "pushed the envelope" much further than the average Jdub can. Here you see the hypocrisy of the organization where they are partial to money, fame, influence and the fact that they don't shy away from kissing a famous person's ass. No other Jdub could act that way, sing those songs, dress in those clothes, without being reprimanded (or worse). But the organization will gladly press its lips against Prince buttcheeks because he is famous, and makes them look a tad more relevant and hip, just like Michael Jackson did, another good(bad) example of this.

  • talesin
    talesin

    As said by the original poster of this comment, it's either/or.  The 'or' has been proven true.  What's your point?

    .

    MJ was DF'ed in the 80's. Or disassociated. 


    Here is the preamble to a copy of the above letter on JWFacts. (I consider that is a trusted source ; ) It appears that Michael, according to JWFacts, disassociated himself, as stated in the conversation posted above, and the letter from the WTS.

    http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/michael-jackson-jehovah.php

    [bold is mine]

    In 1987, Michael disassociated himself from the Watchtower Society.


    Michael's decision to leave the church puzzled his mother, Katherine, and caused her great despair. Katherine wasn't sure she knew her own son any longer. However, there was no discussing the spiritual matter with him - literally. As it is strictly prohibited for a Witness to discuss matters of faith with ex-members, even if they are family, Katherine says that she has never asked Michael what happened, and she says that she never intends to ask such questions. 'I was not required to "shun" my son,' she claimed, referring to rumours of that nature. 'But we can't talk about matters of faith any longer, which is a shame.'" Michael Jackson: The Magic and the Madness p.363
    The publicity surrounding Michael's disassociation promoted the Watchtower headquarters to send the following letter to the Body of elder's and Circuit Overseers explaining how to reply to questions.

    "At this same time, the Jehovah's Witnesses' elders in Woodland Hills, California, began pressuring Michael again. They felt strongly that the recent publicity on the Witnesses was doing them great damage, and that it reflected poorly on the Witnesses, because Michael was so representative of the faith. Michael was becoming disenchanted with the church's elders by this time, mostly because he didn't wan to be told what to do. What's more he couldn't reconcile his lifestyle and career with the religion's strict tenets. In truth, it's almost impossible to be a Jehovah's Witness and be an entertainer. Therefore, in the spring of 1987, Michael withdrew from the Jehovah's Witnesses. A letter from the Jehovah's Witnesses headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, sent as a press release, stated that the organization 'no longer considers Michael Jackson to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.' Gary Botting, author of The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses and a Witness himself, said that leaving the religion is 'worse than being disfellowshipped, or kicked out." He observed, 'if you wilfully reject God's holy organization on earth, that's the unforgivable sin, the sin against the Holy Spirit.'

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    FWIW, I think a couple of things are at play here. It's true that Prince "apparently" got away with much more than the average J-dub. However, if an average male JW sporadically attends meetings because he works out of town, turns in some FS time each month (even if it is "informal"), has no desire to be in the ministry school, pioneer, carry mics or be "used" in any other capacity they can often avoid severe discipline.

    The heat gets turned up IF and WHEN they are MS elder etc. who are expected to be EXemplary. It drives Watchtower NUTS if a man has absolutely NO desire to have any of their so called "privileges" (tm).

    On the flip side I have close relatives who were in a band who played at weddings, parties, and local restaurants/bars. The CO came to town and gave them an ultimatum: Either quit or loose your MS and Elders positions. They were seriously hurt but the cult in them won and the band no longer played anywhere but at their homes. If they had picked their music they would simply have been treated like the sisters. LOL

  • sparky1
    sparky1

    I'm ready for Saturday morning field service, brothers. Who wants to be in my limousine, I mean car group?

  • talesin
    talesin

    We also forget that Prince (a) knew Larry Graham at least for 40 years (since he was 17), (b) grew up in extreme dysfunction, (c) was a gifted musician, who played many insruments, (d) remembered by high school acquaintances as soft-spoken and gentle. He acted out sexually as an adult. It's likely that Graham was a father figure to him. Like many late-life converts, Prince knew bits and pieces of the JWS for most of his life.

    It's well documented (in interviews) that when he changed his name back to Prince in 1999 (contract was done), that is the time he started studying 'for real' with Graham, who was (may still be) a JW elder. A father figure. In the early otts, Prince married a JW beauty, young, was baptized (probably dunked first). Several years later, he divorced. Was it scriptural? How important was it to this person, to keep Graham, a father-figure, in his life?

    Also, he had the example of Graham, who is still revered as a pioneering funk artist for originating the slap-bass method he used when he played with Sly and the Family Stone (which many artists have used over the decades), and continues to be a successful, professional musician. 

    We are very kind to double-lifers who stay 'in' because of their family. In the very criticism of Prince's being treated 'special' by the WTS, you do the same thing. You hold him to a higher standard than you do elders and pubs who post on this DB. He was not an elder pioneer, or Bethelite. Why do you hold him to a higher standard?

    It's part of the human condition, that we like to feel superior. It really shows when issues like this come up. I am reading a lot of jealousy and misplaced judgment, imo.

    Edit and Postscript:

    I have felt sorry for this gifted artist, ever since I 'heard the news' 15 years ago.  It saddened me that the cult finally had its claws in this person who was obviously damaged, and now seeking meaning in his life.  They took advantage of another needy soul, that's all.  He just happened to be famous.  xx

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    It would be perceivable that Prince may have faded from the JWS as of late.

    He wasn't dropping the Jah innuendos while performing like he used to.

    Who knows he may have come here and read some the information about the Borg sparking up some doubts.


  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    I love Prince's music and the guy was surely talented. I have no business judging his lifestyle choices, after all who really knows these megastars...I mean really knows.

    I do have a huge problem, on the other hand with WT's double standards.

    When dealing with a "big fish" they are tolerant and forgiving of personal matters and choices.

    When dealing with regular r&f they are brutal, merciless, and intolerant of the slightest infraction. Happy to delete, disfellowship and "mark" people they have no use for as bad association and don't give a flying fig about the lives they destroy in the process.

    The WT likely showed a very different side of themselves to "Brother " Prince than the one you and I are familiar with.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I said I would NOT post this until I saw it on DRUDGE REPORT.

    Well, I just saw it.

    Prince AIDS Death F

    http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/prince-dead-aids-cause-of-death/

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