The Christian GOD / Old Testament GOD , one and the same right? A GOD of Love ?

by smiddy 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • rebelfighter
    rebelfighter

    I was not blaming the victims. I was saying when humans do things in the past like build cities on earthquake fault lines then an earthquake occurs people blame God for the deaths. People get cancer from asbestos, drinking water that has lead in it and blame God.

    Why did God allow this to happen? What I am saying that is not right. Humans built that city, God did not build the city, did God design asbestos, did God put lead in my drinking water that caused my cancer NO. Then why everytime there is a natural disaster or someone gets sick the first reaction is why did God allow this to happen?

    By the way I believe in God, but am beginning not to believe in the Bible because I feel it was written by men and is not the word of God. The God I believe in loves ALL his children equally and wants them treated equally whether they are very young, male or female.

  • cofty
    cofty
    I was not blaming the victims. I was saying when humans do things in the past like build cities on earthquake fault lines then an earthquake occurs people blame God for the deaths. - rebelfighter

    Those two sentences are contradictory. You are blaming the victims for getting in the way of a tsunami that was made by god.

    It is exactly like driving a truck into a crowd and blaming the victims for not getting out the way.

    God is absolutely to blame for deaths from earthquakes.

    How were people in the past to know where the fault lines were?

    Why did god create a world that has earthquakes? It would have been trivially easy to create continental plate boundaries that did not stick.

    The wave that killed 250,000 in the Asian tsunami affected thousands of miles of coastline all around the Pacific Rim. Nobody was anywhere near the fault-line that was under the Indian Ocean.

    Why did god not calm the wave as it arose from beneath the ocean before it killed anybody? He is 100% to blame for every single death in that disaster.

    God design asbestos, did God put lead in my drinking water that caused my cancer NO. Then why everytime there is a natural disaster or someone gets sick the first reaction is why did God allow this to happen?

    I already said that some cancers are caused by avoidable factors but most are not. Cancer has been happening since the dawn of life. Why?

    Why did god invent viruses?

    Why did he invent parasites that eat a child's eye from the inside?

    Why is it that almost every animal that has ever lived has died horribly from starvation, predation, cold, parasites or disease?

    Here is my comments on the Asian tsunami from the big thread...


    The Anatomy of a Tsunami
    For hundreds or even thousands of years under the Indian Ocean the Indo-Australian tectonic plate had been sliding below the Eurasian plate, however the slide was not smooth. The lower plate snagged the upper one creating a "locked fault zone". Unimaginable pressure built up as the upper plate was dragged down until at 07:58 local time on 26th December 2004 it broke free lifting up billions of tons of water in a few seconds in a magnitude 9 earthquake.

    As the wave rose to the surface it was less than a metre high. As it sped towards the coasts of the Pacific Rim at speeds of 800Km/h the waves grew to over 15 metres. Within hours a quarter of a million people were dead and a further two million were homeless.

    God Did It
    The god of Jesus created the world complete with moving and sticking tectonic plates. We know that continents have been on the move for millions of years. The omniscient god of Jesus knew about the growing pressures under the Indian Ocean during the centuries prior to the disaster. On the morning of the event he observed the Indo-Australian break free and begin to rebound. The omnipotent god of Jesus could have effortlessly dampened the rebound - he chose not to. He watched the wave of less than a metre rise to the surface. The god of Jesus who calmed the storm on Galilee could have quelled the wave and nobody would have known anything about it. No free will would have been infringed in any way. He failed to do so.

    The god of Jesus knew that the wave would kill a quarter of a million people and cause suffering and harm millions more. He did nothing.

    The god of Jesus did not permit the suffering of the Asian Tsunami - he caused it. He murdered them wilfully, deliberately and with malice aforethought. He made a world that was perfectly designed to kill its inhabitants and passively observed the consequences.

    If a man lays landmines around a village and watches children walk across the minefield he is guilty not only of a crime of omission for failing to call a warning but of a deliberate crime of commission.

    The Hypocrisy of God
    My argument is not that suffering is incompatible with the existence of god. It is rather that events such as the Asian tsunami are incompatible with other things that christians claim to know about god. All attempts to explain god's actions result in a story that is internally contradictory.

    Jesus claimed to have been sent to reveal the nature of his god and father. Not only does christianity claim that god is love, it defines the meaning of love, and explains the importance of love expressed as positive action in the interests of others.

    I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous... Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. - Matt.5

    Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Matt.6

    But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. - Luke 6

    Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. - Luke 12

    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. - Jas.1

    "Love ... always protects" - 1 Cor.13

    The god of Jesus is also a god who is active in the world. Millions of christians demonstrate their belief in an immanent god every day. When they thank god for their food or pray for protection for a loved one or for a new job or help with any one of a million concerns they confirm that they worship a god who acts in the real world. This is not the god of deism and yet this thread is full of examples of christians taking refuge in deism to excuse god...

    It is fashionable to assert that nobody can prove god doesn't exist. This is only true as long as we leave the word god undefined. It is my opinion that natural evil proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the god of christians, the god of Jesus does not exist.


  • rebelfighter
    rebelfighter

    Crofty,

    The earth is not perfect but science is getting better as is medicine and we or possibly the next generation will see the day that they can predict and can warn people to get out of harms way as they now do with the hurricanes.

    It is very sad when natural disasters occur and we all reach out through our organizations and help as best we can to assist those in need. I have spent countless hours and donated large sums of money when these things have happened.

    The Bible verses you quoted are those that I do believe in strongly.

  • cofty
    cofty
    The earth is not perfect but science is getting better

    If there is a creator god then he made the earth so that it would inevitably destroy millions of its inhabitants in the most violent ways imaginable.

    Why?

    People have been drowned by tsunamis for thousands of years. In all that time your loving god did nothing to help.

    Why?

    He made viruses and parasites that have killed millions of people in excruciating agony for thousands of years.

    Why?

    P.S. It's Cofty not Crofty

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    This has been an interesting thread...but getting back to the original opening post:

    If the God of the bible is to be taken strictly according to the way he is portrayed in the various accounts, then he is obviously OK with violent acts, as long as they are done "for the right reasons"... such as killing children just because they happened to be born to parents from nations who "didn't worship Yahweh"

    Also, he is OK with immoral and repulsive acts...such as Lot having incestuous relations with his own daughters!

    The bible tells us that "God is the same for all time"...well, that sounds like he is a little odd right? I mean, even his "Human creation" who are supposed to be a reflection of his character find such accounts disgusting.....

  • rebelfighter
    rebelfighter

    Stuckinarut2,

    I agree with you. I do not believe in that part of the Bible. We should love all the children they are our future. All this hatred in the Bible toward children is just ugly. I am sure that is not God'said words.

  • cofty
    cofty
    I am sure that is not God'said words

    Why?

    The natural world speaks clearly of a moral monster.

    We should love all the children they are our future

    So why did your god create parasites that eat children's eyes from the inside?

  • rebelfighter
    rebelfighter

    Cofty,

    I sincerely apology for the extra letter in your name, I suffer from extreme migraines and if spell check does not correct it I am out of luck.

    Who said God was perfect?

    Did he create every person perfect? We are all individuals thankfully.

    They are trying to find cures for viruses. What caused the virus in the first place?

  • cofty
    cofty
    Who said God was perfect?

    Every christian who ever lived.

    Also Jesus - "you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt.5:48

    Do you knowingly worship a buffoon?

    He created a world that destroys millions of its inhabitants. He made viruses and parasites.

    That is more than an imperfection. That is criminal negligence at best.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    rebelfighter said: did God design asbestos

    If you believe in God and that he is the Grand Creator of all things, then the answer is yes. Asbestos is a naturally occurring element. It is toxic when inhaled. Other naturally occurring toxic elements include Plutonium, Uranium, Radium, Thorium just to name a few. There are many toxic animals, reptiles, plants, fish, insects, arachnids, etc on this Earth.

    If you do not believe the Bible is the word of God then you are not a Christian. So which God do you believe in now?

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