Morality etc.

Introspection

From what I can tell there are atleast 4-5 members who might appreciate this and others may find it interesting. Even if you've read it before maybe you haven't read this particular translation. A quote from Tao Te Ching, 38:

High Virtue is non-virtuous;
Therefore if has Virtue.
Low Virtue never frees itself from virtuousness;
Therefore it has no Virtue.
High Virtue makes no fuss and has no private ends to serve:
Low Virtue not only fusses but has private ends to serve.
High humanity fusses but has no private ends to serve:
High morality not only fusses but has private ends to serve.
High ceremony fusses but finds no response;
Then it tries to enforce itself with rolled-up sleeves.
Failing Tao, man resorts to Virtue.
Failing Virtue, man resorts to humanity.
Failing humanity, man resorts to morality.
Failing morality, man resorts to ceremony.
Now, ceremony is the merest husk of faith and loyalty;
It is the beginning of all confusion and disorder.

*note: "ceremony" is basically the idea of propriety

Introspection

Ok I can just see the blank looks out there so here is a bit of explanation. I did leave it off the original post because I didn't want to put thoughts in your head but it's been a while..

You might look at it this way:

Tao = Nature
Virtue = way/power of Nature
Humanity = Human nature
Morality = Some rules humans made up because they seem like a good idea for everybody
Ceremony = Being a poser, trying to look good, "going through the motions", parroting the party line

Hope that helps. Anyways, in view of this I think the phrase about having private ends to serve becomes very telling, because the scope becomes ever more narrow until it becomes just the appearances.

Siddhashunyata

Introspection, do you have an example that might clarify " High humanity fusses but has no private ends to serve".

Introspection

Good question Siddha. I think we might use the example of the good religious person, or more specifically a religious person who is not driven by the ego or outlandish beliefs but is limited by that framework - basically someone with good intentions that puts in a lot of effort because they think in dualistic terms, so they are out to put in a lot of hard work to help the world, that kind of thing. Making a fuss basically means efforting - or using force against force, rather than taking the non-dual view of working with the Tao or nature where the real power is. Besides that, it's just more effective because you are at one with change, as opposted to trying to affect change from a static position.

Francois

Ah, Introspection, how I do admire your courage - attempting to explain the Tao Te Ching.

I have found over the years that the best way to understand it for myself is to read as many different translations as I can find. Even then, my "understanding" of the TTC is more of an intuitive feel for the material as opposed to a western-style analytical understanding. And when asked what something means, I can honestly say that I only have my personal feeling about what any certain passage means and then suggest the questioner go out and read a few translations for themselves.

Have you ever read that book that the society put out several years ago which pretends to "explain" other religions? Their treatment of the TTC is truly abhorent...and ignorant beyond belief.

francois

Siddhashunyata

Good example, fits the whole web of ideas presented. Thank you..

Introspection

Have you ever read that book that the society put out several years ago which pretends to "explain" other religions? Their treatment of the TTC is truly abhorent...and ignorant beyond belief.

Francois, I have the Search book, but like much of the Society's literature I never read all of it, and those I did read was probably covered in bookstudy. I can't say I'm surprised to hear that, then again that's probably why I never read the whole thing, even before I knew better. Isn't it funny how much effort you had to put into reading those things? Yet those literature is just about shorter and more simplistic than all other books, but it just does not hold your attention.

Siddhashunyata

Before the "Search" book the WTBTS published the yellow bound book " What Has Religion Done For Mankind". Buddhism was disdained as "Salvation by Psychology".

Morality etc.

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