I was on the air today with Dr. Joy Browne

by Bona Dea 26 Replies latest jw friends

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  AlanF

  Hi Bona Dea,

  Your situation is unpleasant but not uncommon. A cult like the JWs is able to get inside the head of small children to an incredible extent, planting ideas such as you described.

  In my experience it's unlikely that you and your husband will ever come to an agreement, unless one of you converts to the other's ideas fully. If your husband is as you describe as an unbaptized JW, more likely than not he'll become fanatical when he takes the dip.

  Children suffer greatly in a situation like this, and, while it's difficult to contemplate, divorcing the cult member to protect them is sometimes the only option. Experience shows that when a child absorbs the JW mindset, he will absolutely not listen to criticism of the religion. I know, because my daughter was raised (without my permission) as a JW, and now that she's living with me (for 3 years, now age 17) she told me how she used to tune out anything I would say about the JWs or, in fact, anything related to religion. A cult is that powerful.

  No clear answers for you, but if you get into difficulty with child custody issues, get in touch with Duane Magnani, who runs a web site and organization called Witness, Inc. Duane has had excellent success in showing courts the dangerous, cultish nature of the JWs. And of course, as a female you have a huge advantage over your husband in a custody battle.

  AlanF
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  Bona Dea

  NewYork44M,

  She's my favorite too. I've been listening to her, on and off, for about 4 years. I don't like Dr. Laura either. I have listened to her show once or twice...and I felt like she was too harsh and well, mean to her callers.

  AlanF,

  Thanks for the advice. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I really don't want to divorce but it is looking like the only realistic option I have here. I love my husband and our family, you know? I did separate from him about a month and a half ago. It had been my hope that it would be an eye-opener or something like that for him. Needless to say, it wasn't. In addition to that, my 4 year old began to regress and started peeing in her pants again (she's been potty trained for about 2 and a half years). I know this was her way of showing us that she could not emotionally handle the separation. I'm back and for the time being he has agreed to let us pretty much do whatever we want to do (but openly and sometimes not-so-nicely opposes it -- which only adds to the confusion that my son (the 6 year old) is already experiencing), he hasn't taken them back to the KH yet (we've only been back for about 2 and half weeks) but I am sure come Sunday morning he will try, and has backed off telling them bible stories as often and for such long periods of time (I get to read them first and decide whether I think it is told with a JW slant).

  I know this is only temporary. As far as the childrens bible stories go, he was (prior to the separation) spending with them about 30-40 mins which consisted of a bible story, reading from the bible (the NWT, of course) and explanations for the verses he was citing, and he used a little brochure (looked sorta like a comic book), that I had never seen, which briefly went through the bible and quoted specific scriptures and explained basicallly why their conclusions as to what the bible meant were correct. That was just too much...especially for a 6 and 4 year old. I am afraid that eventually he will slowly try to weed things back in little by little, and it will be just a matter of time until it's back to the same ole-same ole.

  I will look into Duane Magnani. I have spoken with a lawyer. I am aware that in the event of a divorce that I would most likely be considered the primary caretaker. My husband is 24 and I am 30; the lawyer informed me that this fact in and of itself would work against my husband. I really have no desire to rip my kids away from their father, but I am scared for them, and I don't know what else to do. I know that even if I do decide to divorce him, he will probably have them on weekends...weekends that he has already admitted would be spent fully indoctrinating my kids. This is so hopeless....

  Edited by - Bona Dea on 18 October 2002 10:26:18
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  A Paduan

  I just don't get it - w hat is he "convinced" of ? Which bit ?
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  Bona Dea

  Paduan

  I think its a mixture of the fact that they teach no hell, no trinity, no immortal soul, no tolerance of sin (and he has been slowly convinced that these things are biblically accurate-- and other churches are not teaching them) combined with the witnesses extensive ministry work. In all honesty, it has been my experience that you don't learn that much from just attending the average church and there is not much evangelism going on with the average church member. This also reinforces his belief that these people alone are God's chosen people. Also, we saw how hypocrisy and cliques prevail in most churches (however, he has not yet realized these same things abound in the KH). I don't get it either. He seems to have his mind made up though. Nothing I say seems to break through....
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  AlanF

  I understand your pain, still loving your husband and all. But he has gone down a terrible path that would lead your entire family into the horrible situation that most everyone on this board is so happy to be away from. If you think things are difficult now -- well, you have no idea. A couple of years after I quit the JWs, my wife decided that I was not worth her emotional investment, and she withdrew. She quit treating me like a husband in every way, and was backed up in this by JW elders. While the JWs claim that this is not supposed to happen, the truth is that it happens in a large fraction of "mixed" marriages. Sometimes it's best to get out before things get so bad you want to blow someone's brains out -- including your own. JWs have a way of doing that to people.

  As for child custody, there is no reason why your husband needs to have the kids every weekend. The standard in most states is every other weekend and one evening every other week. That's what I got even though I asked for the maximum. A good lawyer can almost certainly keep the contact down to a minimum. Magnani can provide information that will influence the court to force your husband into not teaching the kids his cultish ideas. And of course, language can be put into a divorce agreement that if the husband violates this, he will lose free contact and be allowed contact only under the supervison of a court-appointed referee.

  It may be in your childrens' best interest to contact a lawyer and Magnani right away, and see where you stand. By showing your husband that you mean business, he may get a wake up call.

  I can hardly stress enough that you must prevent your children from being indoctrinated into this scummy cult. Their long term happiness and yours depends on it. Much past the age of six, children really start absorbing the crap and it's notoriously hard to get it out of their heads until they're removed from the constant indoctrination. I know a number of kids who were in therapy for up to several years after the non-JW parent managed to get custody. Getting your kids fixed up can also break you financially.

  Don't hesitate to email me, if you like. My wife can give you plenty of good advice too, having got her kids away from the JWs at ages 6 and 11.

  AlanF
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  Sabine

  Dear Bona Dea,

  I am so sorry for the pain this situation is causing you, but I applaude the fact that you are taking very seriously how this indoctrination can affect your children. Marriage is still very sacred thing to me and it would take very serious circumstances for me to even think of desolving a marriage. BUT, my 21 year old daughter committed suicide after the elders threatened to disfellowship her and in her suicide letter she stated several times that Jehovah wouldn't forgive her and that she deserved to die. You are not over reacting!! This cult is extremely destructive, but in my opinion, it the children that suffer the most. We have been out over two years, and are still struggling with the after affects with our 15 year old son. Continue to listen to you mother's intuition and do whatever it takes to get your kids as far from the indoctrination as you can.

  Warm regards,

  Sabine
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  Bona Dea

  Thank you so much AlanF and Sabine for your emotional support

  Sometimes it's best to get out before things get so bad you want to blow someone's brains out -- including your own. JWs have a way of doing that to people

  I have already experienced that. There are days when I think the only way out of this is to simply end it all. I have seriously considered suicide but knowing that the only person my children have to raise them in the event of my death would be my husband, keeps me alive. It is so hard. It is not my husband who is withdrawing from the marriage. I have found myself over the past year being, well, IMO, verbally abusive and very withdrawn. I have gained an enormous and very unhealthy amount of weight and have completely lost any motivation to live whatsoever. I just take it day by day. There are some days when I just don't want to get out of bed in the morning. I am so mad at him. I would just as soon spit on him as to look at him sometimes. I can't help it. I think this man is willingly tearing our family apart for whatever reason and he is willing to put some stupid religion ahead of the welfare of his wife and children, and yes, that makes me mad as hell. He blames me for our problems, since I am the one who is unwilling to "compromise". Needless to say, I have a lot of anger issues to work out, which in all honesty go back to a time before the JWs even came into the picture. And in addition to that anger, I have a tremendous amount of guilt because of the way I have treated my husband; everhow provoked it may have been, no one deserves to be talked to the way I have talked to him.

  I am in Georgia. Do you think that Mr. Magnani would be able to help me? I don't know how law/attorneys operate from state to state. If so, do you believe he would charge an outrageous amount of $. I am a stay-at-home mom, which makes my situation even more difficult. I have no job, no education, no money (that's not my husbands).

  Sabine

  Actually, it was one of your posts that terrified me the most. I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I cannot imagine how painful that would be. I am fully aware of how dangerous (and I don't hesitate to call them this) this cult can be. It is why I am so distraught. I want more than anything for my family to back to normal, but realistically, that is just not going to happen. I have got to do something for my kids. Thanks for you input!!