WT is using Dr Starks and i bet he don't know it

by JT 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • JT
    JT

    Dr. Rodney Stark Comments
    The Views of Dissidents

    "The most unreliable evidence available is from people who have quit a group and for some reason or another are harboring a grudge."

    http://www.jw-media.org/vnr/2122827332/314373isdn.htm

    &&&&&&&&&

    i bet this guy has no idea of how he is being used

    while i agree that he may be correct to an extent

    but what about a "Dissidents" who can provide proof , documentation, memos, quotes and tons and tons of wt ref on a matter

    i wonder would he contine to hold his views

    one of the first things that impressed me about so called apostates was thier careful documentation of wt statements and quotes

    year, page, publication paragraph , etc

    they have made a purpose to ensure that if they say

    the wt said so and so- you can go straight to the publication and read if for yourself

    this poor man is being hoodwinked and bamboozled

    imagine a Nazi Dissidents trying to tell folks about the millions of jew they were cooking 24/7 according to this dr you could not believe it even if he broght in the VIDEO TAPE I GUESS

  • herbert
    herbert

    JT,

    Not at all - here is a letter sent to Dr. Stark last week. No reply.

    Dear Dr. Stark,

    First let me say that I have read several of your articles and your excellent book on the rise of Christianity. I
    have recently learned that the Watchtower Society is using an interview with you on their web site in support
    of their handling of child molestation occurrences. Certainly, WTS publications appear to be very supportive
    of protecting the child, and, in a way they are. The basic problem, however, with the JWs is that if the abuse
    occurs at the hands of one of their own, their instinct was, and still is, to cover the matter up so as "not to
    bring shame on Jehovah's name" as they put it.

    I would very much appreciate it if you would consider the rest of this email, which contains links to articles
    which I think you will find of interest. My purpose in writing is simply to alert you to the fact that the WTS
    has quite a record of misusing statements by academics for its own ends. In one case it quoted a certain
    Professor Aki of Caltech, an expert on earthquakes, as apparently supporting one of the WTS's claims on
    earthquake frequency, when, in fact, Aki actually said the opposite. (Earthquakes, the WTS maintained for
    many years, until very recently, would increase in frequency during "the last days" - therefore they tried to
    claim that the actual data supports this from 1914. It doesn't at all.)

    The following link provides an extensive collection of high quality discussions of JW doctrines, history and
    attempts to re-write their history.

    Research on the Watchtower

    Unfortunately, the WTS is now featuring another video on child abuse. The latest is, in my estimation,
    nothing short of reprehensible, ill informed and it appears to be no more than an attempt at post facto
    justification of the WTS's documented and abysmal record of covering up molestation cases if they involved
    JWs as the molester. It can be viewed here.

    WT Video Release

    Some quotes supplied at the end of this email, from WTS literature, put the lie to the claims made in this
    interview.

    The NBC show Dateline is scheduled to devote this coming Tuesday's show to child abuse within the JW
    community.

    Please see the coming up section

    The WTS has been in the news quite a bit recently; Stephen Bates of the UK newspaper, the Guardian,
    exposed the hypocrisy of the WTS in affiliating with the United Nations as an NGO while, at the same time,
    condemning both the UN and other religions for doing the same thing.

    Stephen wrote an article for the Tablet last November on the UN scandal. It can be accessed here, although
    you may need to register (it's free).

    Tablet article

    Certainly, the JWs provide an interesting example of how quickly a new religion can grow under the right
    conditions. However, thanks mainly to open access to information on the internet regarding the WTS many
    JWs are leaving the religion, or becoming so discouraged as to become inactive (non publishers). The WTS
    routinely refuses to answer even the simplest questions about doctrinal contradictions on such things as blood
    (now all blood parts are allowed in some way or other), 1914 as the date for the start of Christ's parousia
    (thoroughly discredited by archaeological, astronomical and scriptural evidence), or even how long a creative
    day is - the last item was a central pillar of their 1975 eschatology. All of this, together with scandals such as
    those described in Franz's book, Crisis of Conscience, their affiliation with the UN, their readiness to
    disfellowship those who ask questions too persistently, and now, this affair over child molestation policies has
    caused the JWs to stop growing almost completely, at least in the western world.

    Sincerely,

    <herbert>

    **************************************************

    Watchtower Quotes re: Child Abuse from 18 - 20 years ago

    Progressive Understanding

    "People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will
    harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness ... and the long-term
    effects."

    Here are several excerpts from articles written 17 to 20 years ago. The articles are quite lengthy. But is
    fairly evident that the WTS knew what the experts in this field recommended.

    An excerpt from twenty (20) years ago:

    June 22, 1982 Awake page 10, Rape at Home

    Incest is probably the most selfish and reprehensible kind of child abuse. It is a grotesque violation of the
    child's trust and dependency. It is the child's closest protector that is turning on it. And the child is a damaged
    victim. I have never knowingly talked to a happy, well-adjusted, unconcerned incest victim, said Dr. Suzanne
    Sgroi, former chairman of the Sexual Trauma Treatment Program.

    Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber, director of Odyssey Institute in New York city, says: In my own practice I
    have the hardest time imaginable treating these children who suffer from incest, even more than the kids
    who are battered, abused, set on fire, and whipped because at least those children dont confuse whats being
    done to them with love. The parent who sexually uses a child while telling him, I love you, is raising a child
    who will be afraid to establish rapport, trust, and engagement with anyone else in his life, even with the
    therapist, because unlike the beaten child, he doesnt seek affection, he fears affection and becomes
    extremely isolated.

    An excerpt from nineteen (19) years ago:

    October 1, 1983 Watchtower page 27, Help for the Victims of Incest

    Incestuous child abuse is sexual abuse of children by an older relative. Usually, it is by a male relativesuch as
    a father, stepfather, uncle or older brother. Sometimes, but much more rarely, it is by a female relative.
    According to the book The Silent Children, incestuous abuse can range from improper fondling to oral-genital
    contact to intercourse. Of course, affectionate physical contact between children and older people is proper.
    But when the older person finds these contacts arousing, or when he does things alone with the child that he
    would not do if the childs mother were present, this will likely lead to sexual abuse of the child.

    FOR most of her life Rachel has been ridden with guilt, convinced of her own worthlessness, and trapped in
    a sense of hopeless isolation. What could so blemish the life of a British housewife and mother

    A 16-year-old girl from California said: I now have a pain deep in my heart that will never go away, and it
    hurts, truly hurts.

    An excerpt from seventeen (17) years ago

    January 22, 1985 Awake pages 3-4, Child Molesting-Every Mother's Nightmare--A Widespread
    Problem

    The fact is, sexual molestation of children has been going on for a long time and today it is widespread. In
    1983, the head of New York Citys Advisory Task Force on Rape reported a dramatic increase in the
    number of young children who are victims of rape, incest, and other forms of sexual abuse. Dr. David
    Finkelhor of the Family Violence Research Program at the University of New Hampshire conducted a
    large-scale study of the subject. He found that the children of 9 percent of the parents interviewed had been
    sexually abused. Fifteen percent of the women and 6 percent of the men had themselves been sexually
    abused as children!

    Exact statistics are difficult to come by. In the United States, the National Center on Child Abuse and
    Neglect has records of 55,399 cases of children being sexually molested in one year. But these are only
    cases of incestuous abuse. Abuse by friends, neighbors, teachers, and so forth as well as by strangers would
    increase that figure to a considerable extent. And a spokesman for the Child Welfare League of America
    told Awake! that the figures we have are only the tip of the iceberg.

    A report in the magazine Ladies Home Journal estimates: Sexual abuse of young girls is four times more
    common than rape of adult women. Between the ages of five and 13, one in four little girls falls prey to some
    form of sexual abuse by adults whether it be exhibitionism, inappropriate fondling, rape, or incest. Although
    young females are the most common victims, 20 to 25 percent of those attacked are little boys.

    Doctors are convinced of the harmful and long-term effects of such abuse. Hence, parents wonder: Are my
    children at risk What steps can I take to protect them What sort of person would try to harm them

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    I wonder if the Watchtower carries that view to Catholic "dissendents?" Sure can't tell it by their articles over the last 10 years!

  • JT
    JT

    Hurbert
    Damn you are good my man

    excellent work

    i tried to contact Gail here in MD to see if she is aware of her quotes and how they are being used to sidestep wt responsibility in this issue being that they are the very mouth pc of god here on the earth

  • larc
    larc

    Herbert,

    I assume that you will not get a response from Dr. Stark. I sent a much shorter email addressing some of the same issues, and have not received anything from him. Tomorrow, I should get a copy of his 1997 article on JW growth. After I read it, I will send him another email, and see if I get anything from him.

  • Simon
    Simon

    His comment seems reasonable on face value but in effect means that 'an organisation' will always be right.

    I doubt it.

    He needs to come live in the real world. People speak out for what is right all the time, they leave, they blow whistles, it's how we find out just what sort of crap a lot of organisations have been up to.

    If everyone stopped listening to people like that then do you think there would be more or less corruption around?

    "Dissidents" SORT THINGS OUT.

    Or would we prefer the 'just doing my job, I can't question anything or think for myself' types?

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