Sorting out historical context from BLOOD policy

by Terry 8 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Terry
    Terry

    The Watchtower Policy on Blood can be historically refuted by considering the following steps methodically.



    15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

    15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

    (3.) Human blood. The murderer was to be punished (Gen 9:5). The blood of the murdered "crieth for vengeance" (Gen 4:10). The "avenger of blood" was the nearest relative of the murdered, and he was required to avenge his death (Num 35:24, Num 35:27). No satisfaction could be made for the guilt of murder (Num 35:31).

    When the elders in Jerusalem spoke about "-- adding no FURTHER burden to you---"

    they cited something that (as far as any Jew was aware) had been in effect since the time of NOAH.

    Judaism, even today, refers to subject by the term NOAHIDE LAWS. :


    The Seven Noahide Laws (Hebrew: ? "Šba? miswot bne-No?"), also called the Brit Noah ("Covenant of Noah") mitzvot(commandments) and halakhot (laws) that are morally binding on non-Jews.

    They are listed in the Talmud and elaborated on by post-Talmudic authorities. Opinions differ on the reach of these commandments and the laws derived from them, but all contemporary authorities agree that there are seven commandments. These commandments and laws are based on oral traditions as well as scriptural exegesis of Genesis 2:16 and 9:4-6 .

    Now, we have only to consider what these laws were and to what they applied.

    The Seven Laws


    The seven laws (commonly rendered as Sheva Mitzvot Shel Bene Noach) are:

    1. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.
    2. Shefichat damim - Do not murder.
    3. Gezel - Do not steal (or kidnap).
    4. Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (forbidden sexual acts are traditionally interpreted to include incest, bestiality, male homosexual sex acts (i.e. sodomy) and adultery.)
    5. Birkat Hashem - Do not "bless God" euphemistically referring to blasphemy.
    6. Ever min ha-chai - Do not eat any flesh that was torn from the body of a living animal (given to Noah and traditionally interpreted as a prohibition of cruelty towards animals)
    7. Dinim - Set up a system of honest, effective courts, police and laws.

    Pay close attention to the above. Look at #2. "Do not murder". This pertained to bloodshed. Remember this.

    Definition of Noahides


    According to rabbinic Judaism, as expressed in the Talmud, the Noahide Laws apply to all humanity through mankind's descent from one paternal ancestor who in Hebrew tradition is called Noah (the head of the only family to survive during The Flood). In Judaism, ??? ?? B'nei Noah (Hebrew, "Descendants of Noah", "Children of Noah") refers to all of mankind.

    Judaism holds that gentiles (goyim "non-Jews [literally 'Nations']") are not obligated to adhere to all the laws of the Torah (indeed, they are forbidden to fulfill some laws, such as the keeping of the Sabbath in the exact same manner as Israel). Rabbinic Judaism and its modern-day descendants discourage proselytization. The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.

    Okay, Stop!

    Let us review.

    The Jews did not proselytize! However, they believed Gentiles could have a meaningful reltionship with god by not breaking those 7 laws.

    This is the CONTEXT in which the JERUSALEM COUNCIL answered the question about whether the new-Gentile converts needed circumcision or not.

    As far as the Christianized JEWS (this is what Christianity was at this time) in Jerusalem were concerned the only requirements were what they had ALWAYS BEEN under: the NOAHIDE LAWS.

    Are we straight on this so far?

    A non-Jew who keeps the Noahide Law in all its details is said to attain the same spiritual and moral level as Israel's own Kohen Gadol (high priest ) (Talmud, Bava Kamma 38a). Maimonides states in his work Mishneh Torah (The laws of kings and their rulership 8:11) that a Ger Toshav who is precise in the observance of these Seven Noahide commandments is considered to be a Righteous Gentile and has earned a place in the world to come.

    In scripture the CONTEXT is all important to the proper understanding!!

    Now, ask yourself how the Watchtower Society misrepresents the statement of the council in Jerusalem.

    The Watchtower Society disguises the law against MURDER by representing the BLOODSHED as a de facto prohibition on BLOOD qua blood (blood in and of itself as a substance). This tears away the context of "why". The why is that BLOOD =MURDER.

    Consequently, the Watchtower's understanding and context are an outright error and deliberate misrepresentation.

    Christian adherence


    Some Christian writers[2], particularly those affiliated with Primitive Apostolic Christianity see the verses in Acts 15:19-21 as a directive from the first Council of Jerusalem to observe the basic understanding of the Noahide Laws in order to be considered righteous Gentiles, and not be required to live completely as Jews. According to Acts 15, the Council of Jerusalem determined that circumcision was not required of new converts, only avoidance of "pollution of idols, fornication, things strangled, and blood" (KJV, Acts 15:20). The basis for these prohibitions as found in Acts 15:21 states only: "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day". The evidence of these Noachian inclusions to primitive Christian observance were in addition to the moral Ten Commandments given to Moses atSinai, which covers the most essential requirements of the Noachian covenant. The additions of the four cited above were to complete the requirements of the new Gentile converts to primitive Christianity.

    Why this has never been discussed as an outright refutation of Watchtower misrepresentation is a scandal!

    Watchtower Doctrine is ignorant and malicious!

    READ:

    The MESSEGE Bible sort of irons out the controversy:

    Acts 21:20-25 (The Message)

    20-21 They had a story to tell, too: "And just look at what's been happening here—thousands upon thousands of God-fearing Jews have become believers in Jesus! But there's also a problem because they are more zealous than ever in observing the laws of Moses. They've been told that you advise believing Jews who live surrounded by unbelieving outsiders to go light on Moses, telling them that they don't need to circumcise their children or keep up the old traditions. This isn't sitting at all well with them.

    22-24 "We're worried about what will happen when they discover you're in town. There's bound to be trouble. So here is what we want you to do: There are four men from our company who have taken a vow involving ritual purification, but have no money to pay the expenses. Join these men in their vows and pay their expenses. Then it will become obvious to everyone that there is nothing to the rumors going around about you and that you are in fact scrupulous in your reverence for the laws of Moses.

    25 "In asking you to do this, we're not going back on our agreement regarding non-Jews who have become believers. We continue to hold fast to what we wrote in that letter, namely, to be careful not to get involved in activities connected with idols; to avoid serving food offensive to Jewish Christians; to guard the morality of sex and marriage."

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Hey Terry thank you for the research as always. Just a couple questions so I am clear.

    1) Are you ultimately sugggesting that the "abstain from blood" written by Luke, is basically analgous to "don't murder"? If that is the case, in the repeated statement, Luke ends it with "Good health to you". While I wouldn't rule it out, a refference to a dietary restriction plainly spelled out in the Noachian creed, doesn't seem to lend itself to murder as much as it does respect for life no?

    2) Do you feel that a refference to the concepts of the Jews regarding Gentiles taking up the 7 main laws would have any bearing on a JW's mindset? Would they not easily dismiss it?

    3) The message bible does a good job of paraphrasing, but it also does not give the idea that murder is the thing to be obstained from. Perhaps I am missing a point, or read past it too quickly.

    Thanks again! I am fancinated by this doctrine, since it is the thing that finally got me to WAKE UP.

  • Focus
    Focus

    "Why this has never been discussed as an outright refutation of Watchtower misrepresentation is a scandal!"

    And pray what makes you think this has never been discussed as an outright refutation of Watchtower Spiritual-Pornography?

  • Terry
    Terry

    "Why this has never been discussed as an outright refutation of Watchtower misrepresentation is a scandal!"

    And pray what makes you think this has never been discussed as an outright refutation of Watchtower Spiritual-Pornography?

    Well, actually it has. In fact, I started at least four previous threads.

    About every six months we have a recycling of pass-through people--a fresh crop, as it were. Everything old is new again.

    So, its never been discussed before in THAT context. It's like an old joke you've never heard before; it's new to you.

    But, you've been around 13 years--you've seen it all and heard it all a million times. It's not going to be new to you.

  • Terry
    Terry

    problemaddict: 1) Are you ultimately sugggesting that the "abstain from blood" written by Luke, is basically analgous to "don't murder"? If that is the case, in the repeated statement, Luke ends it with "Good health to you". While I wouldn't rule it out, a refference to a dietary restriction plainly spelled out in the Noachian creed, doesn't seem to lend itself to murder as much as it does respect for life no?

    Well--I'm passing along what's been coaxed out by others over many decades. I leave it to you to weigh and measure how much merit

    you think it has. I like to have the orthodox Rabbi speak up and give their views on these matters because the law BELONGED TO THEM

    before Christianity started messing with it.

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Hey Terry,

    I certainly think there is a connection, but i'm just not sure HOW connected exactly. Blood....life....sacredness.....are all themese that comingle from the beginning.

    The NT however is a collection of letters and instruction for something replacing the Jewish system. In the context of the situation, Jews were in a way being put in there place. STOP adding things (ie circumcision).

    So while I can see tradition in Rabbinic circles may interpret things different as time goes on, that would not neccesarily sway the casual JW who is questioning the doctrine would it?

    In fact, would Pauls comments in the meat market regarding things sacrificed to idols, and the merit of conscience to the Christian, not be more of a dagger to the believer?

  • Terry
    Terry

    If we make another person's weakness the sole standard for our conduct where is the logic

    in NOT challenging that weak person to face their issues and to grow beyond their limits?

    Isn't this what education is all about?

    Mikey is bad at arithmetic--so, none of us can use algebra.

    Really? How about we teach Mikey how to do algebra instead?

    **

    Have we ever heard the phrase: "Get over yourself!" ?

    The person of "weak conscience" needs to get over themselves rather than becoming the fulcrum for all our behavior!

    Where is personal growth, maturity and education in this "admonition" about not stumbling?

    **

    You see--I have a real problem with some of the Christian strategy.

    For example: some asshole strikes you on the cheek. Do you demand they stop it? Do you call a cop? No--you turn the other cheek and

    let them hit you again. What?? See? Christian advice is ignorant of JUSTICE.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Terry - "For example: some asshole strikes you on the cheek. Do you demand they stop it? Do you call a cop? No--you turn the other cheek and let them hit you again. What?? See? Christian advice is ignorant of JUSTICE."

    The turn-the-other-cheek bit isn't about justice; it's about martyrdom (not defending it, just clarifying).

    All fine and dandy for the martyr-wannabe, but...

    ...in this day and age, the concept of deliberate martyrdom has actually been taken to its logical extreme, and as such, has pretty thoroughly discredited itself.

  • Terry
    Terry

    The underlying principle of martyrdom appears to be: values are not worth anything--so don't defend them.

    Strange thinking if you ask me.

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