Sparlock is helping Mormons (page 3)

LostGeneration

This guys videos are great. They could even be used (starting with part 1) to help JWs out.

Can't wait for part 8, I'm sure he will tie it all together and show how everything he studied about the JWs applies to Mormonism.

While this is clearly a horrible form of mind control, I see absolutely no similarity between this video and the way the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) operates. On the other hand, we do teach our children Christian values. "Yeah, your Christian values," some say, but in that respect ALL religions (cults) do the same thing. So my question to the ex-Mormon who saw the same "mind control" techniques by the video used in the LDS church, is: In what way? Is teaching people that they must live by certain standards to gain eternal life mind control?

What about first century Christian cult? Did it practice mind control? What of the miracles, the visions, the ministration of angels? Were these things the result of mind control? If so, we're simply arguing religion v. atheism.

Cofty: The only people who don't think Mormonism is a manipulative cult are Mormons.

As James Garner said in Support Your Local Sheriff, "Sometimes you make me tired all over."

Erbie: That poor, wretched child in the animation. They have even managed to make him look stressed and unhappily weighed down like a real Witness child.

They must have loved the Harry Potter movies! It's even more ironic that it was produced by the JWs. I almost felt more sorry for the mother than the child. If the kid had said, "Did I say it was a warrior wizard? No, I meant it was a warrior lizard. Jehovah likes lizards!

My wife is an ex-Muslim. She said that in Iran the government does the same sort of things in schools. They use dolls with long hair and discuss what Allah wants women to do with their hair. Allah is "happy" or "pleased" when women cover themselves and is unhappy when women show their hair. Despite this, most of the little girls subjected to this crap grow up to push restrictions whenever they can. My wife's cousin, years ago, stepped outside to pick up the newspaper. A neighbor saw her and reported her to the "brothers." She was taken to some kind of a re-education center. As a first-time offender, she wasn't treated harshly. BUT...there were others who were beaten with hollow instruments of some kind and were crying. My wife's father was an ex-judge and got her out. Things are getting a little better there now, but the mind control techniques seem similar, but not terribly effective.

Watchtower-Free

bttt

return of parakeet

Cold Steel: "Is teaching people that they must live by certain standards to gain eternal life mind control?"

Yes. It's a form of operant conditioning -- punishing unacceptable behavior and reinforcing acceptable behavior to achieve obedience and conformity. It's the carrot-and-stick school of learning. The kid behaves because he wants the reward or fears the punishment, not because it's the right thing to do.

You asked earlier that if parents don't believe, what is left to teach their children. I taught my son that love and kindness to others and to oneself is its own reward. I didn't need the help of a fictitious deity to teach him right from wrong. He graduated from university, has a well-paying job to support his own family now, owns his own home, and loves his son (my grandson) to death.

What is your opinion of my parenting? What is your opinion of my son's parenting?

Cold Steel

Your parenting has provided him with a decent temporal outlook, but has robbed him of a spiritual foundation that provides a meaning in life.

Atheism dictates that there may be a tomorrow, but there's nothing down the road but sickness, age and death. I can't argue that someone who is an atheist should provide their children with a spiritual base, while believing it to be untrue. That would be hypocritical. But I can't imagine that any atheist could be happy in the prospect of an eternal night. On the one hand, the cure to anyone's troubles is only a gunshot away, but on the other, to go to sleep every night and wake up every morning thinking that this is all there is.

Too many religions view God as a completely supernatural being, the only one of his kind. This makes little sense to me. To think that God wills things into existance out of nothing is understandably difficult to buy from a scientific standpoint. To me, God is a revealed being. You discount my beliefs, just as I discount your beliefs, yet you go further in being openly contemptuous of what I believe and label it as "mind control." My mind, being thus controlled, I then try to control the minds of others (as you see it). But I have an expectation of an eternal future, not limited by time, space or power...and a purpose. God doesn't have spiritual offspring only to put them in a crummy garden forever; rather, he expects his offspring to become like him in every sense of the word, and to become one with him.

Since there's no point in debating atheism, we can only argue what comprises mind control. God commands that we teach our children to believe and to trust in him. We teach them, nurture them, baptize them and give them a foundation, first in hope, then in knowledge. For any man or woman can ultimately know God. But they can't pass that knowledge to you. In short, it's better to be tolerant and open. Many atheists would seize control of children from parents and use the state to ensure that no mind control is exercised.

dazed but not confused

Great video. BITE - I will have to remember that.

Behavioral Control
Information Control
Thought Control
Emotional Control

Cold Steel - All the wealth of info on this site and you can’t see how warped your similar religion is... I feel bad for you.

garyneal

What, we got an active Mormon on this board?

Captain Obvious

The sad thing is that the sparlock video is actually a pretty good rendition on a real JW upbringing. Constant fear of upsetting sky daddy. You start reading the bible story book as soon as you can turn a page. Gruesome so say the least.

This video is awesome. What we need is a reverse one. Mormonism-JWism. Perhaps when Cold Steel realizes that magic underwear is useless, he can make one.

return of parakeet

Cold Steel: " But I can't imagine that any atheist could be happy in the prospect of an eternal night."

I suppose it's a failure of imagination on your part to imagine an atheist could be happy, even though I am happy. To me, the prospect of eternal night is more attractive than the prospect of eternal life, which is probably a failure of imagination on my part.

CS: "On the one hand, the cure to anyone's troubles is only a gunshot away, but on the other, to go to sleep every night and wake up every morning thinking that this is all there is. "

I don't know for a fact that this is all there is, but even if it is, that knowledge makes life all the more precious and to throw it away would be a terrible waste.

CS: "... you go further in being openly contemptuous of what I believe and label it as 'mind control.' "

I was not being contemptuous. I do think forcing religious doctrine onto children constitutes mind control. I know how that affects a child. It was done to me.

CS: "In short, it's better to be tolerant and open. Many atheists would seize control of children from parents and use the state to ensure that no mind control is exercised."

I don't know of ANY atheists that endorse such an abominable action. That doesn't mean there aren't any, but if there are, they certainly do not represent all atheists.

But many believers would like to force all children to believe as they do by bringing prayer and Bible study back into the public schools. To me, that constitutes depriving children of their right to use their minds and make their own choices.

This Buddhist parable may help you understand my point of view:

"There once was a Buddhist monk who practiced his meditation by walking in the forest each morning. On one clear crisp morning, the monk heard a rustling in the leaves and looked up to see a large tiger watching him from a distance. Sensing that the tiger was about to attack, the monk started running as fast as he could, only to come to a clearing and a high cliff. Not seeing any other way to go, the monk grasped a large vine running partly down the side of the cliff, and began to climb down it just as the tiger arrived. So there the monk was hanging, grasping the narrow end of a vine, with a snarling tiger above him, and a long deadly fall beneath him. To make matters worse, a mouse appeared and to began gnaw on the vine, just above him, but out of his reach. Just then, the monk noticed a wild strawberry plant growing from the side of the cliff, with one plump red strawberry on it. He reached out, picked the berry, put it in his mouth and thought to himself, 'This strawberry. How delicious it is!'”

The "now" matters most to me, not a future "maybe."

Londo111

A few good links on this:

http://www.rationalrevelation.com/
http://www.rationalrevelation.com/library/bite.html

Sparlock is helping Mormons

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