by EdenOne 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
What the OT says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the Christians from Jerusalem after Cestius Gallus siege of 66 CE ? Do we have any Christian prespective about it? Since I concluded that all NT books were concluded before 66 CE (including Revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the Jerusalem Christians ran to Pela ...etc....? Since the Bible is silent after that date?
Eden
Here's an earlier thread about the LACK of evidence: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/195465/1/2010-drama-historicity-of-Christians-leaving-Jerusalem-between-Roman-wars
how do you conclude that any of the NT books were written before 66 CE?
Let us not forget, the books that are compiled to make up the Bible, are not the only books and sources of reference out there.
Did not the Romans destroy most of Jerusalem in the 70s C.E? I never heard 66 C.E. any place before. Of course, archaeology moves on. From Bible sources to secular books not dealing with Christianity, the date is always in the 70s. It is obojective fact.
Every prof and source I've read theorize that James and Peter were wiped out in the destruction. They are so prominent until that date. Paul must pay them tribute. James is far more important than Peter, which makes sense if he were Jesus' brother. Jesus' family members may have believed more after the resurrection. The Jerusalem Christian community was the essential one. No one knows why it basically disappeared suddenly.
The loss of Jersualem as the status center for Christianity paved the way for Paul's theology to triumph. Fewer Jewish Christians allowed Christianity to morph from a Jewish sect to a new religion. I am very busy. One of the tasks is to briefly summarize Elaine Pagel's recent book on Revelation. She discusses the prophet John of Patmos (not the beloved disciple or author of John) as one of the last Jewish Christians radically opposed to Paul's views.
This was new to me or I forgot. I want to reread the section and post the key info here. Revelation scares me but I am obsessed with alternate views.
Speaking of Jewish Christians, does anyone know if there remains a fragment or trace of Jewish Chrisitanity in today's world? It would make an interesting comparison.
Eden,
Your gospel dating is off by immense time spans. Utter nonsense.
JH, I wrote an extensive article about dating Revelation and published it on my website. My conclusion is that all NT books (including Revelation and the Gospel of John) were written before 66 CE, hence no mention mention made in the Bible of the destruction of Jerusalem as a past event. Actually, it appears fairly solid that Revelation was received by John before the other books of the NT were written.
It's, of course, subject to criticism. BOTR defines it as "utter nonsense". I find curious that BOTR doesn't find "utter nonsense" the notion that the writer of the Gospel of John is a different person than "John of Patmos". Oh well.
Eden
Josephus writes in detail about Cestius Gallus' attack and hasty retreat from Jerusalem. He viewed Cestius Gallus as a coward. We know most Christians got out of Jerusalem because the gospel spread to Europe, Asia and Africa. Had the Christians remained in Jerusalem, their missionary work would have seriously been impeded. Fact of the matter is, by the turn of the century the Christians had spread all over the Roman Empire. Some Romans complained about them.
This is all I could find, relating to the Christians and the city of Pella. Evidence of Christian use of the city as refuge during the first Jewish revolt (A.D. 66-70) is still inconclusive. 1 Eusebius (Eccl. Hist. III. V, 3) relates that the Christians of Jerusalem fled to Pella when Vespasian prepared his attack. 2
1 Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row, & Society of Biblical Literature. (1985). Harper’s Bible dictionary (1st ed.) (768). San Francisco: Harper & Row.
2 Negev, A. (1990). The Archaeological encyclopedia of the Holy Land (3rd ed.). New York: Prentice Hall Press.
