A Mormon manages to awaken from mind control with a little help from Jehovah's Witnesses...
by cedars 45 Replies latest jw friends
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Cold Steel
As a true believing Latter-day Saint, I found this production to be a slickly produced anti-Mormon video based on nothing but an extremely superficial straw man argument.
The differences between the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are far more different than they are similar, and charts and diagrams prove little.
The similarities, according to the video, basically center around the fact that both sects:
- are hierarchal in structure
- are led by men said to be chosen of God
- claim that they are God’s true church on Earth
- believe that apostasy is a serious sin
These points also are true of Catholicism and Christian Orthodoxy, and perhaps many other sects as well. In modern times, there’s a decided antipathy towards organized religions, and people who get out of one organized religion don’t usually notice the intricacies of another.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, however, has many aspects that are foreign to other faiths, including the JWs. For example, the LDS church differs in these critical areas, in which they believe in:
- Restoration: Although both the JW and LDS faiths believe in an apostasy from the ancient church, only the LDS church believes in a restoration of the gospel, with all the gifts, powers and authority of the ancient church; further, that the initiative for this Restoration came not from Earth, but from Heaven.
- Revelation: The JWs believe that all communication was done away with the passing of the ancient church, thus ending man’s ability to commune with God or with his angels; receive visions, prophesize, or to speak by the power of the Holy Spirit.
- Authority: Many sects believe that the authority to act in God’s name is derived from the Bible. Latter-day Saints, however, believe that authority comes from God through others in authority. Jesus told his ancient apostles, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit....” (Jøhn 15:16) The apostles held the Keys of the Kingdom, or the authority to bind on Heaven and on Earth. These keys were given to govern the authority of others in the church and prevent interlopers from claiming authority they didn’t have.
- Apostles: The JWs believe that no more apostles or prophets were needed or called and ordained after the ancient church fell. As the chief officers of the church, apostles are special witnesses of Christ who work to spread the Gospel to other nations, direct missionary work and tend to the affairs of the church at large.
- Church Officers: Besides apostles, the LDS church believes other officers of the ancient church were restored. These include the Seventy, Elders, Deacons, Priests, Evangelists, Bishops, and so forth.
- Canon of Scripture: Like many Christian sects, the JWs believe in a closed canon of scriptures, made up of the Holy Bible as the complete and inerrant word of God. Like the ancient church, the LDS have an open canon. Thus, if the Lord adds to man’s knowledge by restoring or revealing new doctrines, it can be added to that canon. The LDS church, in fact, is known for its belief in the Book of Mormon, a collection of scriptures written by prophets who lived in the Western Hemisphere. As followers of Christ were called “Christians” in the First Century, so believers in the Book of Mormon (published in 1830) were called “Mormons.” (The Book of Mormon is available free from the church, or may be downloaded free from Amazon Kindle and other formats.)
These are only a few of the differences between the two religions, and there are many additional foundational and doctrinal differences.
The LDS church views the Jehovah's Witnesses as manmade organizations and we’re frequently at a loss to understand them when they criticize other Christians (including us) as “manmade.”
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moshe
Confirmation bias claims another LDS stooge.
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jwfacts
That is a beautful video.
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cedars
Cold Steel - you don't need to tell a forum of ex-JWs that their former religion is different to that of Mormons. That much is obvious.
What is the same, between both groups, is that vocal opponents are stigmatized as representing satanic persecution of the one true faith.
Also, both groups use mind control techniques to varying degrees. If you can't see that, maybe you are under the influence of these techniques.
Cedars
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Qcmbr
The common factor between all religions is faith. All that changes is the order the ingredients are mixed and the presentation of the final product. One religion may say they are true because they uniquely have men who dance in skirts, another claims they are true because they cannibalise human flesh , another claims it is true because they have new scripture and so on. Coming to this site and reading about how people feel, what the day to day consequences of faith are and how supernatural beliefs make people talk and think a certain way was fundamental in helping me see how similar we all are. I think Mormonism and Witnesses are cut from the same cloth simply because they are a product of the same culture albeit separated by a few decades. They have different peripheral doctrines and practices that are open to change ( revelation or new light) that the members mistake as core doctrines but both have the same core doctrines that the members accept but don't think about as the real heart of the faith ( unquestionable authority in the hands of a self appointed few).
I was at first dismayed and then glad to see the same real experiences simply dressed in different terminology between the two faiths as expressed here. People talked of the demands to put church before family and self by attending meetings, reaching out for responsibility, the boredom of having the same bland material each meeting, the human cost of placing untrained men in charge of others lives on such matters as relationships, social activities, gender preference, finance, approved media, clothing, medical matters, bereavement and loss counselling, punishment and so on. I found the words of encouragement ( wait on Jehovah / endure to the end) ,constraint ( don't run faster than Jehovah's chariot / follow the prophet ) and excuses for failure ( over zealous brethren / sometimes the prophet speaks as a man ) all identical in meaning but using different group buzz words.
The effects of both faiths are similar , both provide roles that allow certain people to experience high levels of influence and control, both do improve certain peoples lifestyles ( those in need of strong social support and peer pressure to avoid self harming habits like drugs), they do geberally provide comfort in times of grief, they give structure to behaviour, they induce feelings of devotion, euphoria and a strong sense of self improvement but at the cost of seeping, unrelenting guilt, the rejection of 'the world' and the handing over of self to group ( you no longer have full rights to your mind and body.)
Lastly I want to note what they do that is very, very wrong and both are culpable of. They present themselves as the ultimate source of knowledge. This has allowed them to make dangerous medical advice ( no blood / gay electro shock therapy) , to make immoral social advice ( no gay marriage / no interracial marriage ) , to lie to whomever they need to ( theocratic warfare / lying for the Lord ), to support bad science ( flood / Indians are Israelites ), to suppress education ( evolution ) , to create arbitrary rules with huge social consequences ( military service / polygamy ) , to indulge and protect the human frailties of the leaders while condemning it in the flock ( excessive drinking / adultery ) , to waste the money of its members in non charitable ways ( Beth Sarim / City Creek ) but above all to nullify thought and deny members the right to seek out knowledge from all sources - they replace scientific thought and process with blind faith and trust in the structure.
TL:DR Doctrines , words, rituals may be different but effects on the mind , members and in day to day practice are the same.
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cedars
Thanks Qcmbr - I was looking forward to hearing your take on this video.
Cedars
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slimboyfat
Is this thread about the same article that this video is about?
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cedars
No slimboyfat, this doesn't appear to have anything to do with that - although it is ironic that a recent Watchtower article was declaring the organization's success in converting someone from Mormonism.
Chris' story is something you are unlikely to find discussed in the magazines!
Cedars
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slimboyfat
I see. I will have a look.
If Vince is right, in the video I posted, and the former Mormon complained about Mormons using the idea of "new light" to cover past mistakes, then that is very ironic indeed. Has that been discussed yet on the forum? It's the sort of comment that makes you wonder sometimes if there are subversives working in the writing department.
