Shunning

by mtwtf 7 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • mtwtf
    mtwtf

    WTS Shunning My Venting #3

    On my rough estimate there may be 50 wts victims of enforced shunning for every one wts child abuse victim. (It is recognized that greater trauma is inflicted on abuse victims.) With such a large pool of shunned dubs, a number must have suffered such bad experiences as to warrant Conti-like cases against the wts. A Conti-level court victory by a shunned youth would be an emphatic way of ending the wts practice of enforced shunning.

    Are any enforced shunning cases close to reaching court?

    Alternatively, a ruling from the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) that enforced shunning is so evil (morally wrong or bad) , inhuman (without compunction or human feeling), and cruel (causing pain and suffering) that it constitutes a religious hate crime, would achieve the same purpose.

    Can anyone see this happening?

    ________________________________

    The wts’ enforced shunning has nothing to do with the Bible. The only conclusion to be drawn from study of the scriptures used by the wts to support enforced shunning, is that the wts is making an absurd and dishonest use of the Bible to exercise control over its rank and file members.

    The Bible texts used by the wts to enforce shunning are:

    ? 1 Cor. 5:11-13. 11) But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolator or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12) For what do I have to do with those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13) while God judges those outside . Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

    Once df/da, a person surrenders both his place in the wts and his title “brother” and spiritually returns to the world. Thereafter, he cannot scripturally be distinguished from any other person in the world. He is not to be judged by those “inside”. His judgement comes from God not man. Not the wts.

    1 Cor. 5:11-13 fails the wts in two ways. It does not condone enforced shunning of df/da persons. It clearly prohibits it. Anyone who applies enforced shunning to a df/da person is putting himself in the position of God. That is not a good position for anyone to be in, let alone the wts.

    ? 2 Thes 3.6. Now we are giving you orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition you received from us.

    Again, this is a direction to shun a misbehaving brother. It has no application to anyone not a brother, even if he had previously been one.

    A third scripture used by the wts is:

    ? 2 Jo. 9-11. 9) Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teachings of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10) If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching , never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him . 11) For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

    Verses 5 & 6 identify the “teachings” that one must remain in. “… I am writing you … a commandment we had from the beginning, that we love one another . And this is what love means, that we go on walking according to his commandments .”

    By twisting these texts to try to make them support its concept of enforced shunning, the wts’ is not “walking according to his commandments.” By its own standards, the wts should never be received into a Christian home or have any greeting made to it. This is the exact opposite of what the wts proposes.

    Moreover, the wts interpretation of 2 Jo 9,11, brings this text into direct conflict with Paul’s two texts. This undermines the oneness and integrity of the Bible.

    Since the wts presents the Bible as God’s Law, it should be subject to the same rules of interpretation as any written law. One authority on written law, (Maxwell ) says: “… it is an elementary rule that construction is to be made of all the parts together, and not of one part only by itself. … the true meaning of any passage is that which (being permissible) best harmonises with the subject and with every other passage ...”

    As 1 Cor. and 2Thes., are expressed in plain, clear language and are in agreement, 2 Jo. must be seen as the odd one out. A construction must therefore be found that will bring 2 Jo. 9-11 into harmony with the other two verses, and not the other way around, which is what the wts has done.

    Finally.

    ? Deu. 18: 10-11 10) There should not be found in you anyone who … 11) or one who … or anyone who inquires of the dead .

    The wts has argued that the df/da are spiritually dead and since Christians do not talk to the dead, dubs don’t talk to the df/da. Once again, this is a misuse of scripture; Deu 18:10-11 is clearly about spiritism and the occult. Deu. 18.10-11 does not even remotely apply to shunning and should not be considered.

    ___________________________________

    Conclusion

    The wts’ doctrine of enforced shunning has nothing to do with the Bible.

    The wts is violating its Christian obligation to obey the Word of God.

    By adhering to its doctrine of enforced shunning the wts is making an absurd and dishonest use of the Bible to exercise control over its rank and file members.

    The wts must already know all this, and more.

    If it does know, it should tremble.

    mtwtf

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    I could see it happen in Europe, but never in the USA. Unfortunately, churches are totally unfettered in their quest to abuse, manipulate, terrorize, rame, molest, lie and destroy lives.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    I could see it happen in Europe, but never in the USA. Unfortunately, churches are totally unfettered in their quest to abuse, manipulate, terrorize, rame, molest, lie and destroy lives.

    If and when the US Courts actually turn on religion, the JWs may prove to be right after all. It just ain't gonna happen. TAXING the churches would be the strongest judgement to ever pass, IMHO.

    Doc

  • simon17
    simon17

    I don't see it. As has been readily seen, there's enough information published that seems to say JWs DO NOT shun former members. Some things do say that, but it would be a nightmare of a case.

    Also, at the end of the day, you can't force someone to like you. If someone doesn't want to talk to you, then they can't be forced to talk to you. If people want to only have contact with people that have the same beliefs as they do, they can't be forced to do otherwise.

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    Maybe a strong anti-bullying law...

    We've seen culture shift in the 20th Century. Hell, some states still have laws against homosexuality on their books but they just don't enforce them anymore. The culture has shifted and people can face serious consequences for discrimination and even be charged with hate crime if a prejudice motive is evident in a crime against a gay person.

    Another example is the huge cultural shift in public smoking over the last 20 years. People's personal objections to it eventually influenced policies within businesses and finally at the level of city and state governments. Similarly, I think we're seeing the beginning of a shift against bullying. Bullying is in people's sights now. It's such a general term that it could cover a wide range of situations. (Then again, the word "bigot" has done nothing to change JW's treatment towards gays.)

    *sigh*...This is such a dicey problem. I'd love to see churches held accountable for human rights violations with shunning, but I'd actually be opposed to a new draconian anti-bullying law. Imagine: people could bring a case against you for simply hurting their feelings in an internet debate. Ugh... WT really has people by the balls, don't they? And they know it. Perhaps the best thing to do is let their slow bleeding run its course. They won't be this influential forever. People are waking up now and it's a pretty exciting time!

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    There have been a couple of tv series recently about the Amish shunning their youth if they leave their religion. Many say 'how terrible' but no one if moved to try to change it. Most (80%+) of their youth that go 'party' for awhile come back to the religion and family. Some ex-Amish help some of them for awhile.

    "The Lost Boys" and girls of the FLDS groups get media recognition from time to time when running away and getting shunned from their closed communes. Some Mormon groups take care of some of them.

    But then there are thousands/tens of thousands of disfunctional homes in U.S. and kids running away from families kicking them out 'right' (?) or wrong. How can a government get into that, to define whether it is a family disfunction because of religion or any other reason. A government can't make make people love their family more than their religion.

    At least Amish and FLDS are not "recruiting" kind of religions. But JWs and Scientologist are "recruiters" so it's up to ex-members and some media sources to cause "awareness" at best.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    In the USA Muslims are not allowed to kill anybody, even though that is part of their religion. Freedom of religion has LIMITS. I intend very soon to look for a lawyer who see's the opportunity. We have in print everything the WT says. Previous lawsuits said they can't go against religous bylaws, however since they print exact opposites, and have in print saying those who leave will not be shunned, but then the private study articles saying the opposite things, THAT then can prove going against their bylaws, and using manipulation to gain members then change the rules. Also the evidences of using brainwash and mindcontrol techniques. I am pretty confident a very well strategically and with all the right evididence, then a major class action lawsuit, with hundreds, or thousands showing the violation of human rights being done, can bring it down!! The attempts I've seen so far on this have been pathetic. What I have in mind has not been done yet. If any want to seriously get involved in this, message me. THe hardest part will be finding the lawyer to do it.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Any club can boot you out if you don't obey the rules. The Courts especially aren't interested in this when it is done in the name of religion, unfortunately.

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