Atheism or Agnosticism, which one is correct?

by Joey Jo-Jo 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    This has been bugging me for a while, and while I don’t want to turn this into something about semantics I think that we should quickly define what an agnostic and atheists are.

    Richard Dawkins defines 7 different types of atheist ranging from weak to militant atheists, but along these definitions there appears one definition with a strong resemblance to agnosticism.

    To me an agnostic is a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in deity/deities, but there are those who define agnostics as a ignorant who simply just don't care or don't have the intelligence to come to sound conclusion.

    An atheist can be a person who disbelieves in a deity/deities based on the current mathematical and scientific understandings of the universe, as well as understandings that can refute certain religions such as the strong influence of Protestantism Christianity in America.

    From here I will refer deity as anything ranging Jehovah to a real spaghetti monster, it's not important because a) we don’t know b)for the purpose of this discussion it is not important to define what we believe god to be.

    An argument that can be used about a deity is -we cannot prove nor disprove that god exists- this is referred to as a Null Hypothesis, an assumption that we cannot create a hypothesis to prove or disprove this deity. This to me is agnosticism and is more correct than the idea of atheism. An atheist would say that there isn't sufficient evidence to suggest that any super being or a particular god created everything therefore believing in such would be illogical, indeed it would, they are right yet they don't see the logical fallacy that disbelieving is as well and that atheists commit by saying this and they make the mistake to assigned this null hypothesis deity/deities to a certain deity written and canonized in the bible. Wouldn't it be more logical to say I don't know.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Okay, speaking as an atheist - and a thoroughly convinced atheist at that...

    It isn't significant to me whether one is an "agnostic", or a "weak" atheist...

    The most significant - and dangerous variation, in my opinion, is the difference between fundamentalists/fanatics, and moderate to agnostic believers - as you said, of ANY deity, ranging from Islam to Christianity to Judaism to Buddhism to Hinduism to Shintoism to Confucianism to goddess worship to Wicca to whatever...

    Fundamentalists tend to produce fanatics, and I consider THEM to be the most "incorrect" - and dangerous.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    but there are those who define agnostics as a ignorant who simply just don't care or don't have the intelligence to come to sound conclusion.

    Some of the most intelligent people I know define themselves as agnostics. They are intelligent enough to know that they don't know, i.e. they are not sure that there is a God, and they are not sure that there isn't.

    That seems a very intelligent, reasonable stance to me. Not one I share, but entirely reasonable, humble and honest.

  • ohiocowboy
    ohiocowboy

    The correct one is whichever one you personally feel in your own heart is right. One belief does not fit all.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Agnosticism is a woolly headed cop-out when it comes to god. Do you have a belief that god is real? You are a theist. Do you lack that positive belief? You are an atheist.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/123456/4/There-is-no-such-thing-as-Agnosticism-Agnostics-do-not-exist

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Philosophically, I am with Nicolaou. However, if atheism is to ever advance in society, we have to embrace the idea that people want to avoid taking the firm stand of atheism and go with agnosticism.

    While personal definitions may vary, I accept that many atheists "don't know" but default to the No-God position. (I do know that the God's of man's creation are nonexistent.) Agnostics "don't know" and generally default to the Could-Be position.

  • cofty
    cofty

    I am an athiest, I don't care for semantics.

  • IsaacJ22
    IsaacJ22

    Since I don't agree with your definitions, it's hard to know how to respond on your terms. You would put me in a different category than I would put myself.

  • Atomahawk
    Atomahawk

    @ohiocowboy, I have to agree, its a personal matter. It's also one that can change depending on where we are in our personal development. When I was young I believed in a creator based on the information given to me or acquired , with time that point of view changed because I continued to ask questions.Since we all live different realities, opinions vary.

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    ziddina:thx, I also share your view.

    Chariklo:That's true, one self proclaimed agnostic being Carl Sagan, but there are intelligent people of all beliefs like some of the founding fathers of science believe in God, so for the purpose of this disussion lets disregard who is more intelligent and focus just on the argument at hand, but thanks.

    ohiocowboy: I would re-word it - Which belief is more rational and more logical?

    nicolaou wrote Agnosticism is a woolly headed cop-out when it comes to god. Do you have a belief that god is real? You are a theist. Do you lack that positive belief? You are an atheist.

    How exactly is it a cop out? Can you prove that god exists(all gods, any gods, gods we dont even know of)? Can you prove that God does not exist? If you can not then you are an agnostic. The word Atheist is not the same word used in the 1980's for people who disbelieved in the possible of there being any God to we have no proof that god exists therefore god does not exist.

    I don't see it as a cop-out. The other problem faced with science is that most think it's a set of rules, that somehow evolution only applies to us but not the universe, I might touch on that later.

    OnTheWayOut: Agnosticism isn't just that (just like agnostic atheists), I also agree with 'I do know that the God's of man's creation are nonexistent. ' but this is also an agnostic, atheist and anti-theist view on religion. My point being Atheists don't know if a super being created the universe - that is an agnostic view- but when they say that therefore they have no reason to believe in it - is an atheist view and illogical.

    Think about it, if I told you I have 5 broken laptops under my bed but you have never been to my house, you are not going to disbelieve me just because you can not prove it to yourself that I have five broken laptops, but you don't have to take my word for it either- a null hypothesis.

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