Ireland and Crisis of Conscience

by Lunatic Faith 3 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Lunatic Faith

  I just finished reading the part of CoC in which Ray tells the story of those two brothers from Ireland who came to the US to meet with the GB, only to be ignored then eventually pushed into disassociating themselves. Ray mentions that Ireland in general was having a hard time dealing with the heavy handedness of the GB, especially in regards to the new policy on disassociated ones. He made a comment I found interesting, "The Branch office was well aware of the attitude of the Irish Witnesses, their disinclination to be dominated and dictated to" (p. 332).

  I found that comment very interesting and it automatically brought up everything I knew about Irish history: their rebellion against England, the Protestant/Catholic issue, the IRA, etc. But mainly I thought of something my presiding overseer said a few years back. His son-in-law was a professional ax man used by the WTS to travel around and clean things up. He had spent a number of years in the DR helping with the new branch office, then he was sent to Ireland. Why? Apparently because Ireland had tons of issues, and always had. The branch office needed some "house-cleaning" and some rebellious attitudes needed to be straightened out.

  Is that an ongoing problem with Ireland, or could it possibly stem from the situation Ray revealed 30 years ago? What about the Irish makes them less likely to put up with BS? Or is it possible that all Europe are basically of the same mindset (i.e. France, Bulgaria, etc.)? Which, in my mind, makes them more highly evolved than us puritanical descendents. What do you think?
• 

  wobble

  I love the Irish, they like a good laugh and a good drink, I think I share a lot of genes with them !

  They certainly as a nation have the Celtic attitude that they will fight tooth and nail for their land and culture,so the high control that Brooklyn try to impose would naturally be resisted .

  The problem for the JW's for along time was the dominance of JW's who had moved there to "serve where the need etc"

  These people were usually ones who were disaffected in some way in Mainland Britain, either a failure financially, or more often than not a failure in their own congregation. They went to Ireland with the attitude that the Bog Irish knew nothing and they were the Superfine Apostles who knew it all.

  For many years few Irish men joined the religion, and those that did were not inclined to "reach out", clever guys !

  Once a few indigenous guys began to take the lead a bit, few were what Brooklyn would have preferred, brainless drones, the Irish have had foreign rule imposed on them for centuries and do not take kindly to the concept of being ruled from afar.

  A good number of these guys over the years soon woke up to the problems with WT doctrine and left the religion, as I said clever guys, brighter than me. As it was a small community, only a few thousand Dubs in the whole island, North and South, these families leaving had a big effect.

  Over the years the London Branch was seen to be superior to the Irish Bethel, they sent the odd Rottweiler to sort things out, but the Spirit of the Irish could never be totally subsumed.

  The religion has a small growth there year on year, quite why I fail to understand, but they have a lot waking up and leaving.

  Just as the "Irish Problem" has been a political one for centuries, I feel it will remain a problem for the WT until it itself expires.
• 

  Lunatic Faith

  Interesting information, thank you wobble.

  Your comment re: 'super-fine apostles' reminded me of a couple of young sisters I knew who went there to help out for six months. Ireland has always been considered 'need great' territory. I remember them coming back and complaining about how simple the people were. How they never wanted to do anything but sit in the pubs and drink and talk. I always thought that sounded awesome--but I am Irish. I have always wondered how those Irish bros and sis viewed these naive, condescending pioneers. Probably glad to see them leave.
• 

  wobble

  Yup, such ones were looked upon by the Irish with wry amusement, but the Irish are too polite to point out the fact that you are an idiot.

  They are very egalitarian too, they accept anybody for who they are, titles mean nothing, and somebody who is up their own arse really does not fit in.

  They would have been glad to see the back of such ones, true.

  The poor Bros and Sis there are still plagued by pain in the arse English and others who moved there recently, or moved there decades ago, but haven't assimilated the Irish view on life.