Jehovah's Witnesses stance on serving in the military...

by garyneal 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    My wife and I live in a military area so it is natural that we encounter a great number of people who have benefitted from it and are living fairly good lives. My wife and I talked about this some last week when it was found out that the unbelieving husband of the JW who babysits our daughter is retired Air Force. This would explain why they are living so well. In fact, I only recently learned that he was an unbelieving husband as I took for granted that he was a witness himself. Seems like there are a lot of us unbelieving husbands to witnesses in my wife's cong which, considering the area we live in, makes sense.

    This isn't to say that there aren't active witnesses who weren't also former military. My whole pet peeve with them is that they are quick to tell others not to join the military and yet they themselves aren't giving up their military benefits, especially that pension.

    My wife said that she had a love / hate relationship with the military. She cannot understand why some people who come out of the military do quite well while others come out as homeless former vets. Each situation is different and I'm sure PTSD may have a lot to do with it, particularly if an individual has seen combat.

    I told my wife about the time when the draft was still in place and how a lot of witnesses went to jail for refusing to serve in the military. These witnesses were offered a way out by serving in military hospitals, however they were not allowed to even serve there. Therefore these people went to prison. I asked my wife what did she think about that and why were these witnesses not allowed to serve in hospitals. Her cult mode kicked in immediately.

    "There's nothing wrong with serving in hospitals, just not military hospitals. I mean, would Jesus say, 'No, I do not wish to die and give my life as a ransom but I will serve in your hospitals and heal the sick.' I'm sure Jesus would be a real hit in the hospitals."

    That was basically the jist of her argument however I fired back by saying, "Perhaps Jesus wouldn't but the Watchtower did however change their stance and now allows for witnesses to serve in hospitals during times of war. Granted it is a moot point now since the draft is no longer in force and a witness today would not face that situation like a witness during the Vietnam era did."

    Her response, "Not a military hospital."

    My reply, "Yes, a military hospital. The Watchtower changed its stance on that. Now let me ask you something, how would you feel if you went to jail for refusing to serve in the military in any way because your religion said that you could not do so even if the government allowed you to serve in a hospital only to later find out that your religious leaders changed their position on this matter? Personally, I would feel rather slighted that my religious leaders had the gall to do such a thing. I went to jail and now have a criminal record when I could've avoided it by serving in a hospital, something that they now allow but did not allow when I was faced with that choice?"

    She got real silent then and started saying is a low tone, "You've got it all figured out, don't you? You've got it all figured out."

    Truth is, I am not totally cognizant of the whole stance of the Watchtower society on military involvement. I know that no active witness can volunteer for military service but what if there was a draft, what is the current light on this? Is what I said above correct?

  • highdose
    highdose

    WHen 9/11 happened in my cong, the brothers were all talking about maybe we were going to war and perhaps they would be drafted? ( don't know why because Britian does have a perfectly good army(!) Anyway the talk was that they had to refuse to be drafted if such a thing happened. Wether that meant a spell in prison or not.

    I grew up thinking that the Military personal were mindless thugs who liked to kill people, i got this thinking from the JW's. Who even thought the old WW2 ventrans wearing their medals on V Day was disgusting "its like showing off about how many people they killed!"

    Now i work closely with the army and have nothing but total respect for them. A nicer bunch of chaps you would be hard pressed to find. Considerate, couregous and respectfull. The JW's could learn alot about how to treat people from them. These chaps deicate their lives to their work. Right now they are leaving their wives and children to go to a land that has nothing to do with their homeland. There they are helping to libarate innocent people that they don't know and will never know. They do this at great personal risk and everyday they watch as a few more of their comrades are killed or maimed. They know that any day now this could be them returning to the UK in a coffin. These people in my opinion do deserve respect and admiration. Never mind those pompus jack asses of elders, these are the people i show respect to now... although they would never ask for it.

  • teel
    teel

    Yes Gary, what you said is correct (unless they changed it in the last few years, which is unlikely). 11 years ago military service was still obligatory in my country, and I was just the right age for that. The elders talked to me in details about alternate service, and how it's up to my conscience, although their view was still leaning to the old view of "it's for the military, so it's wrong".

    On a sidenote, the military was getting tired of being sued by JWs who didn't want to do any alternate service, so there were a few years, when the army just looked the other way when it came to JWs. Then we joined the EU, now JWs have it easy...

  • blondie
    blondie

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/7733/1/WTS-Deception-on-Alternative-Military-Service

    This might prove interesting showing how the WTS changes doctrine one that led to the incarceration and deaths of jws.

    I find trying search first on JWN is helpful.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I'm not clear on the exact stand JW's take on options to military service. I think that's because they wind up taking all sides of an issue to be unclear.

    I do believe they allow "alternative" service now, as your post mentions they didn't used to do.

    Granted it is a moot point now since the draft is no longer in force and a witness today would not face that situation like a witness during the Vietnam era did.

    It's a worldwide organization and many people are still affected by their rules.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I find trying search first on JWN is helpful.

    I don't. The search function on this site sucks. I rarely find what I'm looking for. It's why so many people end up "marking" threads, so they can scan through their own posts to find what they're interested in; the Search is horrible here.

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    My personal experience with the WT was the "conscious issue" serving the Army. Back in the mid 80's then in my country they told us that when the time comes to join the Army, we will say that, "due to our trained Christian Conscious, we cannot join the Army". I recall that the "elders"they used to give guide lines for those who had the "neutrality issue". One of their basic guidelines for us was: NEVER SAY TO THE AUTHORITIES THAT THE WATCHTOWER IS TELLING YOU NOT TO JOIN THE ARMY. YOU MUST SAY THAT THIS IS YOUR PERSONAL DECISION BASED UPON YOUR CHRISTIAN CONSCIOUS...

    So with this statement WT was saving their ass! The blame it was upon the brothers and the decision was theirs!!! Plus the Goverment couldn't blame legally WT that it is promoting an anti-army policy.

    The most shameful part of the WT, was that in some countries they accepted ALTERNATIVE Service, while in my country they just didn't accept it. Many brothers suffered in prison for 3-5 years due to that policy. Then(as usual) WT came after few years and ACCEPTED Alternative Service for the brothers.

    I recall when I had a discussion with a former JW on this matter. He said that were lucky because we are living in European Country. Imagine if we were living in an African regime. We would have been killed for sure!!! So just like the story of the Malawi Brothers, not many JW's recall that event. or what was happening in other countries on this issue. The GB those twisted old fools, they just follow the pattern that Booze Jo left as legacy for the WT. They find mechanisms to triger persecutions and blame it to the Devil(as usual)and that they are "God's chosen people"that they are suffering for the sake of the truth..."

  • blondie
    blondie

    Mad S, how do you search? I found this with my first search, 3rd entry.

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    Great thread.-:) I recall reading about the WTS policy on military during Mexico scandal. Compared to Malawian brother's horrible, cruel and degrading ill treatment I think, it was the mother of all hypocrisy on the part of the WTS to make exemption in this regard.

    Scott77

  • Invetigator74
    Invetigator74

    The reason I was DAed was because I joined the Military, and I won't ever regret the decision I made! Even though I stay for a short period ,not collecting a pension, I reaped the rewards of buying my home with a VA loan and my education,paid for by Uncle Sam!

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