I was just in a service meeting where the elder announced that the KH had been sold. He gave the dollar amount and said it would be split between the two cong's currently meeting in it. The cong I attend will move to another location which currently has a building with another cong in it, but there is also enough open space on the plot of land to build another edifice. The elder said the money would go toward building the new edifice. My question is this: Do the local cong's own the land and the buildings, or does the WT Society?
Who Owns Kingdom Halls & Land?
by InterestedOne 8 Replies latest jw friends
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DanaBug
If I understand correctly, the congregation owns it until the mortgage is paid off and then the WTS owns it.
This is what I found:
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diamondiiz
As far as I know the congregations sharing the building "own" the kh. It's registered as a charity. Congregations get a loan from wts and pay money to wts. When wts decides they need to upgrade to a bigger building they build new building and sell old one where that money is used to cover the load. When wts decided they need to get rid of notty congregation and they need to sell the building the money goes to wts. I never heard of a congregation taking the money (in your case half the money) of the building with them when they're not going to need to build a new kh which would really take the burdon off the members of that cong as they wouldn't have to contribute any more as costs could be covered by the cash in the piggy bank. IMO wts will get a charitable donation from your cong or you will donate your half of the loot to the other cong which will be building a new kh.
Either way wts has the final say on what's going on with each kh and where the money goes when it's sold.
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InterestedOne
I see. That makes sense. The elder made clear that the money would go to the new building and that members should not think they can stop contributing to pay the month-to-month utility bills for the space they will temporarily share with the other cong. He said we don't want to be an embarassment to the other cong by letting the lights or gas get turned off.
Based on the other thread, it looks like the WTS would get the money as the "parent" organization if my cong were to be dissolved.
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metaspy
Just like when you are paying off a house the Bank owns the land until you pay off the building - the society "owns" the land until the congregation pays it off. Essentially they bought it and you are paying them back (with interest).
After the congregation pays it off, they own it.
However, the first thing a new congregation does is create a stipulation - if the congregation ever folds or gets disbanded, all assets are returned to the Society.
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wobble
My old Congo. was in the position of owning the K.H outright, no loans. The WT Soc. Of Great Britain sent a letter saying we should, in common with all Congos. in the U.K give our ownership to a Trust, the Trust being owned and administered by the W.T Soc.of Great Britain.
This means that if the Congo. was dissolved.or absorbed by another, all the proceeds from the sale of the K.H would go to the Trust, none to the members of the Congo. who put in thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours of free labour,we built it ourselves before the era of Q.B teams.
This disgusting con. trick went through on the nod, after an obfuscating talk by an Elder, and a vote with no opportunity to dissent.
I think nobody in the Congo. realises that they no longer own the K.H building, or the land it stands on that was donated by a Bro. for the benefit of the local brothers, not the W.T.
I wonder how he feels now, if he knows ? he left the Borg some years ago.
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Juan Viejo2
This is the process going on at the Menlo Park, California Kingdom Hall. The local congregation held the title to the building and land. The WT sent in a new Circuit Overseer who announced that Menlo Park would be dissolved and would move in with Redwood City Kingdom Hall, just a few miles to the north. In order for the Watchtower to get control of the Kingdom Hall, the CO announced that the old hall would be renovated (using funds provided by the WT Society). The WT would then get their name on the deed and also the non-profit corporation that held the trust. Then they would merge the two congregations, sell the Menlo Park building and land, and the WT would keep the bulk of the proceeds.
The former elders of the Menlo Park Congregation have filed suit in federal court to stop the takeover. All of the former leadership of the congregation has been removed by the WT and elders from the Redwood Congregation have been moved in to takeover. The former elders, the plaintiffs in this case, all expect to be disfellowshipped, in spite of being faithful JWs for decades and having the full support of the majority of the local JWs.
As soon as I can finish some personal business, I will put together more information on this case and publish it here and on Ex-JW.com. I am also waiting to get some updates from local contacts and anonymous sources that should help me fill in some of the gaps.
The bottom line is that the Watchtower Society, through its Service Department and the Circuit and District Overseers, basically intend to just confiscate the Menlo Park property even though they owned no equity in the property and were not part of the deed holders or co-owner with the local non-profit trust corporation made up of local elders.
JV
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Amazing
This issue has been discussed a lot on JWD.
The local congregation "always" owns the Kingdom Hall. They purchased it. Even if they borrow from the Watchtower Society to finance new construction or renovation, it always belongs to the local congregation.
The big change came after the Bonham, Texas case. In that situation, the majority of the congregation voted to leave their affiliation with the Watchtower Society. The minority, along with the help of the Society sued to keep the Kingdom Hall. They plaintiffs lost, and the Bonham group got to take the Kingdom hall with them. The JWs left had to build a new Kingdom Hall. As a result, the Watchtower Society got every US congregation to put the Society on the deed as a Beneficiary in Trust. This means that if the congregation dissolves, or chooses to leave their affiliation with the Watchtower Society, that they agree to deed the Hall over to the Society as beneficiary. Until that time, the local congregation owns the Hall and has the final say in how they dispose of it, sell it, etc.
It is illogical that the congregation would buy the Hall using a Society mortgage, make payments for 30 years, and in the end the Society owns the Hall. There is no incentive to make any payments. Just let the Society own the Hall in the first place. If JWs had any sense they never would have put the Society as beneficiaries in Trust ... but they did it to protect the minority owners in the event there is a repeat of what happened in Bonham, Texas.
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wobble
They do not own it in the U.K