The Un-born

by seedy3 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • seedy3
    seedy3

    I have a question. According to the beliefs of the JW's do the unborn babies take part in the resurection after the "great day"?? I need to have some reference in the WT literature. I would do the research on the subject but I no longer have the material (JW) to do the research. But it was a question that came up on the different beliefs, from a JW friend of mine and I said I didn't think they did take part in the resurection. He said that they did, but he had no evidence either. Could someone help me out here with WT Publicaton references PLEASE :)

    Thanks in advance
    seedy

  • Thomas Poole
    Thomas Poole

    This is one of those gray areas where the WT goes beyond the scriptures to practice it's omnipotent, pervasive know-it-all influence. It was the kind of knowledge that was mouth-to-mouth, but not ever in print.

    The general thinking was that if a child [fetus] had not been born, and had not taken it's first breath of air, then it had not become a person yet, a living soul so-to-speak. There is no scriptural Biblical foundation for this view.

    I find that the Bible equates an unborn child as a person, as such. For example John-the-Baptist had the Holy Spirit even before being born, and many other such references.

    Go to the following please, and insert key words relating to the unborn, as what comes to your mind:

    http://www.bartleby.com/108/

  • tabande1
    tabande1

    this is my first time responding to a forum so forgive me if I am not doing this correctly.:)
    I am of the firm belief that when a baby is conceived, the exact moment the sperm enters the egg, life begins. Therefore I believe all concieved babies, fetuses, etc., will be a part of that Heavenly kingdom promised to all who believe and who serve Him.
    Children are accepted because of their innocence. They have not reached that unknown stage of being held accountable for their own souls.
    Yes, for those of you who guessed it, I am not a JW or an ex-JW. I am one of those Born Again Christians.

  • seedy3
    seedy3

    I do aprecieate, the comments on the subject, and agree with much of what you are saying. I feel life starts in the womb, not at birth, but that actually is another issue. Somehow I recall my parents (JW) believing that if the baby died in the womb, it would not have a resurection. A correct view or wrong view is really not the point of what I am looking for. I find it sort of hard to beleive that the Governing Booty, would never have adderssed this issue in at least a "Question from readers" or such. The right or wrong view is not n question, it is just "What is their view on it"? Has it ever been addressed and if so where?

    Thanks again
    seedy

  • freeman
    freeman

    Speed,

    You raise some good questions. I don’t have any Watchtower references however I can speak from my own experience. Some years ago my wife while pregnant experienced complications and we lost our daughter. Her name if she were alive today would be ‘Sara’.

    The loving elders came by to cheer my wife and I up and as part of their little visit they corrected our ‘misinformed view’ and assured us “if the baby did not take it first breath, it will not be resurrected”. Apparently that’s the organizational view but I think you would have a hard time supporting such an idea in scripture. `

    That was many years ago but I still regret to this day that I didn’t do then the one thing that would have made me feel better then and even now. I should have kicked the shit out of the loving elders. Bastards!

    Freeman

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    This is the latest refrence I could find.

    *** w84 3/15 30-1 Questions From Readers ***
    Questions From Readers
    õ My friend had a miscarriage. As a woman I sympathize with her, but would it be proper to encourage her to hope in a resurrection?
    You certainly can do much good by giving her comfort and loving Christian help. But the Bible does not provide a basis to expect a resurrection of the embryo. Consider why:
    When a woman conceives, there is just one cell, a fertilized egg. Normally, over a period of nine months that cell divides and implants in her uterus, the embryo develops, and finally a child is born. A miscarriage cuts short this natural process, ending the life that has begun and that should grow into a separate human. If an abortion is performed, it conflicts with the sanctity of life and with God’s command against murder.—Exodus 20:13; 21:22, 23; Numbers 35:16-18; 1 Peter 4:15.
    Our Life-Giver is aware of a life growing in the uterus, as we can see from what the Bible says about Jesse’s wife carrying the embryo that developed and that was born and named David. (Psalm 139:13-16; compare Job 31:15.) What, though, about the possibility of a resurrection in instances of miscarriage or stillbirth?
    The Bible acknowledges that a fetus or an embryo can die. This results in spontaneous abortion, or miscarriage, or in a stillbirth.—Genesis 31:38; Exodus 23:26; 2 Kings 2:19-21; Job 21:10; Psalm 58:8; 144:14.
    Job mentioned various ways in which a miscarriage can occur, any of which he felt would have been better for him than the suffering he was experiencing. He said that he might have been “a hidden miscarriage,” someone who “should not come to be, like children that have seen no light.” (Job 3:16) This could refer to a woman’s miscarrying even before she realized that she was pregnant and while the embryo was not viable. The Body Machine states: “Many ova [fertilized eggs] do not develop normally, a greater number in fact than those which do. About ten per cent fail to implant and of those that do about half are aborted spontaneously, usually without the mother knowing.”
    Job also said that if ‘the doors of his mother’s belly had been closed, he would have been concealed from trouble.’ So he would have escaped suffering if he had ‘proceeded to die from the womb’ or “in the womb.” (Job 3:10, 11, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures; Rotherham) Serious defects in the embryo or fetus sometimes cause this. Or it may result from abnormalities in the mother’s reproductive organs; deficiencies of vitamins, hormones or oxygen; or maternal disease.
    In his agony Job felt that such possibilities would have been better for him. Yet his mother would have been saddened, even as are women today when inherited imperfection results in miscarriage or stillbirth. In mentioning those possibilities, Job did not say that he would have been in line for a resurrection anyway. The benefit, as he saw it, was that he would have been concealed from trouble or have been undisturbed.
    Job added another possibility: “Why did I not come forth from the belly itself and then expire?” (Job 3:11) If, as sometimes occurs, Job had been born and soon thereafter died, maybe even before having been suckled, what might his future prospects be? He did not in the context discuss that. But later he showed that if, after having lived as a human, he had died and gone to Sheol, God likely would ‘set a time limit and remember him.’ Our Life-Giver ‘would call and Job himself would answer.’ Yes, Jehovah God could bring Job back to life, resurrect him.—Job 14:13-15.
    This accords with our knowledge of resurrection in Biblical examples. Those who were resurrected evidently were brought back to life as the individuals they had been at death. That is, children who died were resurrected as children, adults as adults. (2 Kings 4:17-20, 32-37; Luke 7:12-15; 8:40-42, 49-55; John 11:38-44) Would it be reasonable to think that if a “hidden miscarriage” had occurred in Job’s case, in the New Order that microscopic embryo would be restored to his mother’s womb to continue a pregnancy of which she might have been unaware? That does not conform to what the Bible shows about the resurrection, which always involved persons who had been born and existed as separate individuals before God.—John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15.
    But what if the embryo was more developed, had become a fetus or even was close to full term? There are many possible situations. However, there is no point in speculating, for there are countless sad consequences of imperfection suffered today. In the restored Paradise our loving heavenly Father will reverse man’s sinful condition and bring marvelous blessings. Many people will be resurrected. The decision as to how the resurrection will be carried out, and to what extent, rests with Jehovah and Jesus. We can be sure that the decision will reflect Jehovah’s perfect wisdom and justice.
    Elihu assured Job: “Far be it from the true God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly! For according to the way earthling man acts he will reward him . . . Yes, for a fact, God himself does not act wickedly.” (Job 34:10-12) All of us, including couples who have had the very sad experience of a miscarriage or stillbirth, can take comfort in knowing that “good and upright is Jehovah

  • Julie
    Julie

    I have another question along these same lines. If there is this great resurrection at The End, will all the unborn babies that the Israaelites killed back in OT times be resurrected too? Or are they also evil like the parents God had killed?

    Just wondering,
    Julie

  • musicnonstop
    musicnonstop

    The WT rails against abortion as being in contravention of the sanctity of human life and God's law against murder (including in that statement the use of the 'morning-after pill'), and yet sees no inconsistency:

    (a) in deeming a baby dying naturally before full term as being a human life of somehow lesser value, i.e. not worth a resurrection, and, far more reprehensibly,

    (b) being willing, in principle, to sanction the death of an unborn baby (and its mother) through their unscriptural blood doctrine - and I was that baby...so you might appreciate how words cannot describe my utter contempt for the GB

    "They never told me what was the truth / Just a young man losing his youth..."
    - The Stranglers, "Bear Cage"

  • seedy3
    seedy3

    Thanks soo much sleepy, I took that and pasted it in a word document, that will help me much. I sort of figured that could not have been a Q the Old farts in NY could have totally avoided. Makes me wish I had one of their CD's for research at times. Do ya suppose if I went to the local KH they would give a good ol apostate me the item I am requesting, LOL yeah right.

    Thanks again
    Seedy

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