NEW LIGHT in the Darkness of Space !

by KnowlegeSeeker_UK 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • KnowlegeSeeker_UK
    KnowlegeSeeker_UK

    I was staying with relatives for the holidays this weekend. I chose to walk away after years of 'worship' including pioneering and being a bethelite. (see old post) Anyway I was reading the societies website where i stumbled on NEW LIGHT that no one else has picked up on or read. I dont use this forum, or anything like it, but sure this hasnt been picked up on...

    2 things, the first being very significant in my opinion. Ask a JW how old the earth is, how old the created universe is and whether we are creationists ..... I think they would be suprised to read the socirties new lines on this topic.....

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/200609a/article_01.htm

    Also, as a Jw I believed we were unique in our stance to see "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial" not so now apparantly.....

    "While we have strong religious convictions, we are not fundamentalists in the sense that the term has come to be used. We do not believe that every passage in the Bible is to be interpreted literally."

    http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article32.htm#fundamentalists

    Any thoughts ? Also found the youtube vids by exgileadmissionary very good, he verifies that visiting the UN was part of attending the Gilead school.... Hmmm visiting the wild beast, makes perfect sense.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ExGileadMissionary

    Let us know what you think, difficult time of year this for me, all mates still in the 'lie'.

    KS

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    You can tell who ever wrote that is not up to date it is narrowed down now to 13.7 billion years. Also they no longer give the 7,000 year long creative day explanation but leave it undetermined (what next we evolved?).

    It is getting harder and harder to stick to the the Genesis account and not look silly especially on the Internet. They can only do so if they tread lightly and are careful not to step in any cow paddies found in the book of Genesis.

    I was thinking hopw nice it would be if instead of the stary black sky they put a picture of the universe from when it was only 300,000 years old, from the back round radiation of the big bang from the COBE satelite.

  • SirNose586
    SirNose586
    "While we have strong religious convictions, we are not fundamentalists in the sense that the term has come to be used. We do not believe that every passage in the Bible is to be interpreted literally."

    And neither do fundies. They feel that some passages are symbolic, just like the JWs.

    However, fundies do believe in the deity of Jesus, and some other points which the JWs do not subscribe to.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Knowledge-Seeker, I find several misleading ideas in the article on that link. What is worse, however, is that the "new light" will supersede the "old light" and everyone will be happy with it. Just as they believed one thing the day before, they will believe otherwise now.

    About the misleading ideas, I would like to start wit this: what the WTBTS is NOT what the Bible says. It's about time we don't confuse one with the other. The WTBTS is an organization whose primary objective is surviving, no matter how. The Bible is a set of books which many people read in many different ways, and ALL organizations claim that their own particular way of understanding the Bible is "what the Bible says". This is a very subtle point, but one that matters a lot, because we cannot start our understanding of this article if we assume what the WTBTS still needs to prove, namely, that what the WTBTS says is what the Bible says.

    Now let's discuss what the WTBTS says in the article.

    "The Genesis account opens with the simple, powerful statement: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) Bible scholars agree that this verse describes an action separate from the creative days recounted from verse 3 onward. The implication is profound. According to the Bible’s opening statement, the universe, including our planet Earth, was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began." I would like the writer of the magazine to please explain how something existed BEFORE it was created. Either we agree that God created the Earth, or we disagree. What we have here is something like an "in-between", a "yes-no". "God created everything in an indeterminate period of time, only everything existed BEFORE that time". The obvious question is, did God create anything at all?

    According to the WTBTS,

    "MANY people claim that science disproves the Bible’s account of creation. But the real contradiction is between science and, not the Bible, but the opinions of so-called Christian Fundamentalists. Some of these groups falsely assert that according to the Bible, all physical creation was produced in six 24-hour days some 10,000 years ago.

    The Bible, however, does not support such a conclusion. If it did, then many scientific discoveries over the past hundred years would indeed discredit the Bible. A careful study of the Bible text reveals no conflict with established scientific facts"

    Here, the "established scientific facts" are a hell of a big hole, the size of the Universe, and anything can pass through there. If you claim, for example, that science has not proved that God exists at all, the WTBTS will claim that science can't disprove his existence either. The misleading part is, science doesn't believe anything exists unless there is proof of it. It doesn't believe that something exists because no one has disproved it. Science only considers true what it can prove to be true. If we told the WTBTS that there is no proof God exists, the WTBTS would say that such a statement is NOT an "established scientific fact", and that would be the springboard from which the WTBTS would go on to say that "God exists". What we see here is a way to say "we are in agreement with science" when in fact they are not.

    Now, let's see what the article says about evolution:

    "Does this progressive appearance of plants and animals imply that God used evolution to produce the vast diversity of living things? No. The record clearly states that God created all the basic “kinds” of plant and animal life. (Genesis 1:11, 12, 20-25) Were these original “kinds” of plants and animals programmed with the ability to adapt to changing environmental conditions? What defines the boundary of a “kind”? The Bible does not say. However, it does state that living creatures “swarmed forth according to their kinds.” (Genesis 1:21) This statement implies that there is a limit to the amount of variation that can occur within a “kind.” Both the fossil record and modern research support the idea that the fundamental categories of plants and animals have changed little over vast periods of time."

    Scientists believes in evolution, and they don't hold that there were many "kinds" of organisms to begin with, but "prokaryotes" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis). Do I detect a contradiction between what the organization says, and what science says? The idea is that the prokaryotes eventually came to be different, and then they were evolving into the many life forms we see today. Science doesn't hold life began with many "kinds" of animals and plants that came into being at once.

    There is little of the scientific way of proving things in the following paragraph:

    "Because of their philosophical beliefs, many scientists reject the Bible’s declaration that God created all things. Interestingly, however, in the ancient Bible book of Genesis, Moses wrote that the universe had a beginning and that life appeared in stages, progressively, over periods of time. How could Moses gain access to such scientifically accurate information some 3,500 years ago? There is one logical explanation. The One with the power and wisdom to create the heavens and the earth could certainly give Moses such advanced knowledge."

    The problem here is that the "logical explanation" is not proved. Ergo, in scientific terms, it is invalid. We don't know whether it happened that way, so we don't hold it to have happened that way.

    By the way, unless I am wrong, Moses is believed to have written not only the Genesis, but the entire Pentateuch. In the WTBTS's own New World Translation, the following text is found at Deuteronomy 34, verses 10 to 12:

    "And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hand upon him; and the sons of Israel began to listen to him and they went doing just as Jehovah had commanded Moses. 10 But there has never yet risen up a prophet in Israel like Moses, whom Jehovah knew face to face, 11 as respects all the signs and the miracles that Jehovah sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Phar´aoh and all his servants and all his land, 12 and as regards all the strong hand and all the great awesomeness that Moses exercised before the eyes of all Israel."

    "There has never yet risen up a prophet in Israel like Moses" reveals that, whoever it was who wrote Deuteronomy, and whenever it was written, some time HAD elapsed since the death of Moses, or it would be impossible to utter that very phrase. So, did Moses write the Deuteronomy? Here I see a contradiction between what the WTBTS says and what the Bible says. Their Bible, by the way. I invite anyone to check that out: http://www.watchtower.org/bible/index.htm?bk=de;chp=1

  • KnowlegeSeeker_UK
    KnowlegeSeeker_UK

    All good points, it stands out to me as my new path of enlightenment is a science degree in higher education, I agree that they cannot for long remain so embarassingly opposed to scientific FACT. I was expecting a sly quiet move like this, though it was still unpleasent to see it.

    I cannot believe they still deny evoloution despite seperating themselves from creationists and NOW finally agreeing with Darwins first speculation that the earth is millions of years old.

    Of course, far more ridiculous than this, is the denial of evoloution, yet its function being assumed to bring about the 6 million species of animal we now have, from the considerably fewer 'kinds' of animal that entered Noahs dinghy.

    I asked all the JW's around me this weekend, they all answered between 4000-1000 yrs as the age of the earth (few million out on the societies UNITED stance). Also when i asked do we take the whole bible literally... they all said yeah. Shame.

    PS im training to be a physician in medical school, the need to save real lives I am determined to fulfill.

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