Baptism

by Aeiouy 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Aeiouy

  So I was thinking about baptism today, and something that was said in my JC meeting a few months ago. I was baptized at the ripe old age of 10. Yes that's right, 10. That should be illegal. What kind of 10 year old knows what they want to do for the rest of their life? I think there should be a limit on when one can get baptized. There is a reason you're not considered an adult until you're 18. It's because you're not an adult! And even at 18, who in their right mind really knows what they want to do.

  Anyway, it bugs me because if someone has reached say 15 years of age, they begin to be looked badly upon by others if they have not gotten baptized. Why aren't you baptized? Are you doing something immoral? You're not studying enough are you? What's wrong with you? That's what I've seen at least. In my JC meeting, they brought up the vow that I had made, and told me I had an obligation to fulfill it whether I wanted to or not. I had made a vow. I thought to myself, "WTF? How could I possibly have known what I was getting into at 10 years old? And now I'm bound for the rest of my life by something I did when I was 10? Not Bloody Likely! There is no way that would hold up in the imperfect human courts of this evil evil world. Why then would Jehovah accept the vow of a 10 year old?

  Just my ramblings. Any thoughts?
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  OnTheWayOut

  Even though I took the "vow" as an adult, and took the one where I swore allegiance to the corporation instead of the father, son, and holy spirit, the corporation used deception and withheld information from me. I entered into the relationship in good faith, but they took advantage of me. Nobody needs to uphold their end of such a deal.

  Plus, all I did was make a promise that I upheld. There was not a promise to leave it open-ended.
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  dgp

  I have one thought, Vowel Man. Who says you can't change your mind about your baptism, even if they baptized you when you were old enough to know what you were doing?

  By this I don't mean you don't have a point in saying that you were baptized at 10 and that should count in your favor when wanting out. What I mean is, you can change your mind, can't you? If the society encourages you to get baptized, and supposedly it's your own decision, why can't you decide otherwise later?

  And, let's not make mistakes. Jehovah didn't make you get baptized. The people in your congregation did. Or, are we now to say that they are the same as Jehovah?

  I don't believe in any gods, but, for the sake of argument only, let's just say that Jehovah would be a bad God if he were to take as valid the pressure a group of people exerted on a child. Or, if he were the kind of God who won't let you change your mind. And you can fulfill your obligation to Jehovah without them, can't you? Why does Jehovah have to use a fallible elder?
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  dgp

  Hey! I just noticed something (maybe it's too late, but, anyways). OTWO says he made a vow to an organization, but this organization withheld information. I'm sure they did, and I don't think Big J would take it against him.

  But, since when do you baptize into an organization? Since 1985. But, isn't baptism an act of faith? Why do you have to get baptized into an organization? And, what is supposed to happen if your faith changes?
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  HappyGuy

  what were the questions when you got baptized? were they that you were showing by this outward sign of being immersed that you were dying to your forer course of life and giving a public demonstration that you were dedicating your life to serving God (or Jesus or Jesus God or God Jesus I get confused)?

  Or was it the one where you say that you will obey the WTBTS?

  If it was the first one then your relationship with God is between you and God and no man has any right to interfere in that. The Bible says that very clearly.

  If, on the other hand it was the second one, then they have a problem because they change their doctrine so often it is difficult to know what you are obeying. And they entered into this contract (because of the way the questions are now worded it is a contract) by giving you false information to persuade you to agree to the contract. So, they have violated the contract.

  But, yes you are right, contracts with 10 year olds are not binding anywhere that I know of.
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  Aeiouy

  According to the elders in my JC, my faith isn't allowed to change. I made a vow. A life long commitment. And I have an obligation to uphold that vow. Interesting points though about swearing to a corporation. Too bad that won't work with the R&F.

  Aeiouy
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  wizardca

  I really don't see the issue with JW baptism. Personally I think it's better than how other religions do it.

  You could have been a baby being baptised into the church. Then when you were 10 went through classes became confirmed ands start partaking communion because mom n dad wanted you to. How is that any different?
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  Aeiouy

  @wizardca:

  That's the point. How is it any different? Witnesses say they don't do infant baptism because the person needs to be making a conscious decision. That's why they condemn other churches for infant baptism. But it would seem that they themselves follow the same creed. I don't know. Like I said. Ramblings.

  Aeiouy
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  HappyGuy

  I have an issue with JW baptism.

  As far as I understand the purpose of baptism in the New Testament, it was an outward sign that a person was committing their life to serve "God" (whatever that means). The immersion under water was to signify that the person died to their former course of life, and the coming up out of the water signified that they were now alive in their new life, resurrected as it were. Something like that.

  The WTBTS has changed baptism to mean that one is committing their life to obey the WTBTS. I got this question from DocBob's site. He says it is the latest version of the 2nd baptism question:

  Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  Looks to me like it is a contract between the baptism candidate and the Watchtower corporation that the baptism candidate is agreeing to obey the Watchtower corporation. Because if you read the literature of the Watchtower corporation it says that you can only be one of Jehovah's Witnesses if you follow the direction of the faithful and discrete slave which they claim is them.

  That is the problem I have with JW baptism.
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  AllTimeJeff

  Aeiouy

  Totally agree with you. It's not right that a lifelong committment is put upon a minor, esp when you are lied to about what you are signing up for anyway.

  Due to my experience, I am a big believer in reaching an age of majority, whether 18 or 21, for such major decisions.