by koolaid-man 15 Replies latest jw friends
If you want to be taken seriously, stick to stuff that is sensible and can not be disputed.
....and....
I just clicked on your link and found a front page for your website that would scare the shit out of a Jehovah's Witness.
You don't do us Apostates any favours with crap like that. Reniaa must love you.
I really don't see why all of you are so offended by the above letter. MJ has said in interviews that he did not have a normal childhood and being a jw was part of the abnormal upbringing. Granted, there are numerous other things that can be attributed to his strangeness but the jw indoctrination and lack of holidays is something he had brought up himself as missing as well as most of you here have brought up. Many here continue to have problems and even call themselves 'social retards' (words used here on this board by ex jw's, not my phrase) and have difficutly 'fitting in'.
MJ's mother has never had to tow the line like so many jw parents. How many here are being shunned right now by your parents? How many here are still going to meetings just so you can keep your family? I'm sure if you were as famous (or had a child like MJ) as MJ and had that kind of money you too would be able to do as you pleased AND keep your family.
Yes, some here have been able to move on with little emotional baggage and are successful in all areas of their life, others struggle through everyday. Individual strengths are just that, individual. Why do some who come from drug/poverty/abusive homes go on to lives of crime and others go on to success and wish to never subject their children to what they lived through? Why do people come to America from 3rd world countries with no freedoms and know true poverty go onto become Doctors or other careers that help their fellow man while home grown American's who have all the freedoms do nothing for themselves? We are all individuals and one can be exposed to horrors and go on and others are forever affected by the horrors and cannot 'get it together', 'pick themselves up their bootstraps', or 'have the stiff upper lip'. One becomes something and the other who suffered something similar falls apart. I'm not suggesting being a jw was MJ's entire problems in life but it certainly contributed to it.
Many here seem to have had very lax jw parents, some had very strict and downright insane parents. Either way, the jw lifestyle is not normal for anyone and is emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and at times physically & sexually abusive. Abnormal things I have seen on ex jw boards- mother's checking their daughters used female hygiene products to make sure they were not pregnant, a father smashing his sons knees with a bat so he could not use a sports scholarship he secretly got by secretly playing a highschool sport, parents stealing their childrens money, parents allowing their children to die for mere men, parents who allowed the elders to sweep rape under the carpet and allow the perpetrator continue to child rape, destroying used toys due to 'demons' being in them, telling their children the rest of their schoolmates & non jw family will be dead at the Big A and are worthy of it, etc..etc...etc.... this is not normal, this life jw children live, it is abusive.
As for ex jw sites you find 'creepy','scary' or 'corny' for jw's, you must remember not all ex jw boards & sites are only for current jw's. They help those who have loved ones who are just now thinking of joining, they help relatives understand why a loved one has joined a wacky cult and what is wacky about it. The owner of Six Screens is a product of the jw's just like many of you here. If you dislike his site then don't go there, simple. If you think it does damage to the ex jw cause then make a better site and find a way to direct people to it.
More blame the WT stuff. Some blame those who pushed him.
In defense of that, what parent does not want their children to live up to their full potential? I imagine Michael was much to busy with his rigid schedule to pay the WT much mind.
He obviously had some personal demons as Mindmelda so eloquently and knowledgably expressed on another thread. In spite of all the negative things that may have influenced his life, Michael persevered to try and do something worthwhile with his time on this earth. He brought joy to a great many people. I believe he was a compassionate, tender soul.
I think blaming the WT for whatever idiosyncracies Michael had is erroneous. If it were true, it would stand to reason that all JWs and ex-JWs are suffering from some sort of dementia.
Worse yet, this could play right into the WT hands by saying "See? He left Jehovah and was turned over to a reprobate mind. And that is what will happen to you, too, if you dare leave!"
I think blaming WT is in poor taste and misdirected, much the same as I see people venting hatred toward Michael as a scapegoat for all child molesters. I also think it is very wrong to judge and convict someone based on tabloid rumors. And I think it is a deceitful error to try to blame WT for Michael's personal problems. I don't think Michael got in nearly as deep as most JWs do.
What needs to happen is that the media acknowledge that the witlesses did traumatize Michael Jackson, as well as everyone else that is born into that cancer. Some grow up to be pedophiles (often, remaining in the congregation). Some go balistic and attack the witlesses. Some will do little more than expose the doctrines that the religion puts out, in an effort to prevent them from growing as quickly as they hoped to. Some repress it all, and die of cancer or heart attacks (many of them even remaining "faithful").
To compound the matter, Michael Jackson was also a superstar. This gave him the means to try and capture his childhood again, the childhood he never had. Most witlesses and ex-witlesses do not have that means. It also gave him the means to do a video that the witlesses did not like, so they made him feel bad about having done it (even though Jackson is an adult at that time, they are still treating him like a child by reproving him for doing his job).
To the extent that anyone tries to minimize the religion's involvement, they are allowing themselves (and, in the case of the media, whose job is to report things honestly, the world) to think nothing is wrong with that religion above and beyond that which is wrong with all Christian religions. If it's the government that is deluded, it is even more of a panic situation since they are turning a blind eye to a major problem religion, and that religion is as capable of plunging the world into the Second Dark Ages as the Catholic church was at plunging the world into the First Dark Ages. Turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to the danger that religion poses to society is certainly not a good idea, any more than it was for the Romans to ignore the danger of the Catholic church around 380 AD.
Everyone that has posted a comment on here has made a valid point....including Rick Fearon.
It is very difficult to grow up in a organization such as the Jehovah Witnesses and come out to live and think 100% normal !
Michael Jackson had to attend the kingdom hall ...it wasnt a choice matter....just like he had to attend the kingdom hall, he had to perform as well...whether it was at packed arenas or strip clubs...he had to do his job...and he wasnt baptized...while on the other hand, the superstar R&B singer PRINCE performs and goes to strip clubs and he is baptized...BUT THE WATCHTOWER TRACT SOCIETY DONT SAY NOTHING TO HIM and so he gets a pass !
All ex JW's know...including myself know that we had no choice in attending the kingdom hall and our parents would have paid Jehovah God himself for us to get us baptized...some were forced and pressured by our families and parents into becoming Jehovah Witnesses...my own mother made me sign a contract that in order to receive my guardianship money at 18 years old...that I had to be in good standing with her and Jehovah !
yes...I made it and moved on ( I'm disfellowshipped and I dont care ) but it took damn near 16 loooooooooong years to finally get it together and move on and it also took for me to get far away from my mother as well.
I'm not even close to the success level as Michael Jackson, but I can personally understand on how his upbringing played a role on the adult life of Michael Jackson....a very tragic and sad man that was gifted and blessed.
Just like myself, he wanted to be the best in his craft ....a talent and a gift that God himself gave him ...and he was shot down by the organization and looked down upon just as I was when I was pursuing music...this is same organization that claims that "they are no parts of this world" but becomes a non-governmental member of the United Nations some years later after "disassociating" Michael Jackson for doing the video "THRILLER"...in which was made for entertainment only and did not go against any bible scriptures.
We are all like Michael Jackson in one way or another but at the end of the day...its all about having a personal relationship with God that matters ...not one with the Watchtower and Tract Society ...
Daniel Chamberlayne
Author- The Kingdom Hall No More
...without a choice in the matter for so many years and think that one day when you wake up
Shocking!!! :O
