The Miracle of Prayer - Samuel Herd, Governing Body Member

by Kosonen 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  jabberwock

  Did the men in the talk actually commit adultery or were they merely discovered to be homosexual?

  The context is ambiguous. First it mentions that, "some sisters found out that they were married to homosexuals" which does not necessarily mean that they had committed adultery, but the same sentence describes them as "immoral men". The speaker leaves room for the possibility that what is meant is that even being homosexual is grounds for your mate to divorce you, even if you have not committed adultery.

  And why would the Governing Body need to be moved by Jehovah before taking an in-depth look at the meaning of the word porneia? Shouldn't they have exhaustively researched the word in order to be absolutely certain of the correctness of the answer they gave these sisters?

  Ray Franz mentions this very subject in his book Crisis of Conscience. It seems everyone on this board has read it but for those who haven't he explains that the Governing Body had decided that for an act to be considered adultery it must be capable of producing children, thus homosexual sex and a wide range of other sex acts were NOT considered adultery. In such cases freedom to divorce and remarry was not given. This disturbed him so much that he began to research the meaning of the word porneia (particularly as used at Matthew 19:9) and learned that the consesus among bible scholars was that the word included all forms of sexual immorality. After sharing his findings the Governing Body decided to reverse their decision.

  So, if Ray Franz is to be believed then he is actually the only one who Jehovah moved to look into the matter further?

  Since he wasn't a member of the Governing Body in the 1950's when the original position was taken isn't it misleading then to imply that those who made the decision went back, did some research, and decided to make a much needed change?

  jabberwock
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  WTWizard

  Why should we have to pray to Jehovah that He open the hearts of the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger to the truth? First, He isn't going to do s***--He will just sit there like a Dope, watching the suffering that they are causing and not giving a f*** about it.

  Second, it is their responsibility to come up with the truth--so long as they demand people accept their word and base their lives around it, they are morally responsible for telling the real truth. If they don't want to tell the truth, then they have the obligation not to pass it off as truth and force or coerce people to live by it.
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  Kosonen

  How can they claim to be "Faithful and Discret"?
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  freetosee

  This was an issue I brought up in my judicial hearing where they tried to talk me out of dissassociation. I had mentioned that one thing that irritated me to no end was that so many of the brothers and sisters confused Jehovah and the Society. One of the elders, Jared Hardie, commented that only a new one or one weak in the faith would make such a mistake.

  I then went on to discuss the change in the view the Society had on homosexual behavior. I mentioned how many sisters who were married to gay men before 1972 could not divorce and remarry without being disfellowshipped and unfortunatley many of them were kicked out for doing just that.

  Then in 1972 "brighter light" fell upon the governing body and the rule was changed so these sisters could divorce their gay husbands and remarry without any issue. I then asked "Why didn't the Society just say they had made a mistake and apologize to those sisters who had been disfellowshipped earlier and welcome them back into the fold?"

  Then elder #2, Stuart Vislosky, replied "So you think Jehovah should apologize to these women?"

  I then looked at Jared Hardie and elder #3, Roy McWhorter, and said pointing at Stuart "He just made my point! I asked why the Society didn't apologize to the sisters and he translated that into why should Jehovah apologize? In his mind, the Society and Jehovah are the same!"

  Jared then said the meeting was concluded and we went our separate ways.

  Don

  lol.. Great experience from donny! So true!