Pre-Flood ages based upon different calendar?

by Inquisitor 86 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor

    There is almost a whisper somewhere on the Net that the reason ancient patriach's like Noah, Enoch, Methuselah lived so long is because of a gross miscalculation. Their ages were based upon a calendar that was a lot shorter than ours, hence their years could be twice as long. Has anyone else read/heard anything like this? I've been looking up for reading material but could only come up with flared-nostril apologetics; fundies INSISTING on the literalism of the scriptures.

    This reasoning about an alternate calendar is conceivably the work of Christians who read the Bible metaphorically/symbolically, not goat-sacrificing atheists. I am very interested in considering their line of thought if only i could find it amidst the clutter. Help, anyone?

    INQ

  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor

    I believe this topic is considered in this week's ministry school; one of the talks

    "Reasoning from Scriptures" p. 94

    INQ

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Fascinating topic.

  • Inquisitor
  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor

    LENGTHS

    OFLIFEOFTHEPATRIARCHS

    Name Genesis LengthofLife

    Adam 5:5 930

    Seth 5:8 912

    Enosh 5:11 905

    Enoch 5:23 365 - he wasn't supposed to have died of old age, was he?

    Methuselah 5:27 969

    Lamech 5:31 777

    Noah 9:29 950

    Shem 11:10,11 600

    ___FLOOD________________

    Peleg 11:18,19 239

    Nahor 11:24,25 148

    Terah 11:32 205

    Abraham 25:7 175

    Isaac 35:28 180

    Jacob 47:28 147

    taken from "Insight from Scriptures" Vol 2, p. 252

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    For the sake of discussion:

    Assuming pre-flood life expectancies were actually the same as ours and that the "pre-flood" calendar was different, your post contains several improbably long numbers in the early post-flood era. This would tend to dash that harmonization to the ground.

    I have read (Isaac Asimov) that probably great ages were ascribed to the ancients to enhance their "hero" status.

    This is a fascinating subject. Lets hope some chime in.

    Burn

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Enoch was "transferred". God "took" Enoch. re: Genesis 5:24

    Burn

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Yeah, in the Enochic tradition, Enoch was taken up into heaven to be shown the secrets of the cosmos (the cycles of the sun and moon, the rotations of the stars, the hidden depths of Sheol, etc.), and then he was placed in heaven to be the scribe who writes down in the "books of life" the deeds of every person in every generation until Judgment Day. Then he will return to earth with Elijah just before Judgment Day, when these books are opened and every person who has ever lived is judged on the basis of what they have done in their life. In later tradition, the heavenly Enoch becomes glorified as the angel Metatron, the Son of Man, the Anointed One, or the "lesser YHWH".

    I have an old thread which explores the possibility that Enoch (seventh in line from creation) was based on the Sumerian antediluvian king Enmeduranki (also seventh in line before the Flood), who was especially beloved by the sun god Utu, who was known as the Utu who ascended to heaven and received an understanding of its mysteries.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67655/1.ashx

    It is therefore noticeable that 365 is the number of days in a solar year. Coincidence? A variation of the solar calendar (a sabbatical calendar with 364 days, which is evenly divisible by 7) is especially prominent in the Enochic tradition (see the Book of Luminaries in 1 Enoch).

    I'm not familiar with any "alternative calendar" attempts to shorten the ages of the patriarchs, although there were attempts to connect (some of) the numbers to the Babylonian sexagesimal systeem. The main observation that still stands, however, is that the ages (or lengths of reign) in the Sumerian King List show very much the same pattern .... insanely inflated lengths before the Flood (even more so than in Genesis, on the order of thousands of years), then decreasing ages after the Flood, until they reach the normal length when one reaches "contemporary" times.

  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor

    Hello, BurnTheShips!

    your post contains several improbably long numbers in the early post-flood era.

    Yes you make a good point. The Noachian Flood does not make a clean drop in lifespans. Peleg's 239 and Terah's 205 are astounding lifespans. While those anomalies do require some sort of explanation (your guess is as good as mine), they are very obviously 3 to 4 times shorter than the lifespans of the earlier patriarchs.

    Or put it in the opposite perspective, the pre-Flood lifespans are at least 3 to 4 times the length of the post-Flood anomalies. So surely the pre-Flood lifespans can be categorised apart from the likes of Peleg and Terah. Of course, one has to first assume that there is some credibility to this "lost" calendar hypothesis. For all we know the "lost" calendar (LC) hypothesis is rubbish.

    INQ

  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor

    Am grateful for the background info to this topic, leolaia!

    Perhaps like you say, there is no such alternative calendar. Maybe it is a fleeting musing of someone who noticed that some calendars can be shorter than the 365-days long solar year (e.g. Mayan Tzolkin year has 260-days?). It would make a convenient way of explaining away a 900-year-long lifespan.

    A lost calendar that had a 100-days for a year would reduce a 900-year-long lifespan to about a third (200+years). Again, wishful thinking perhaps.

    INQ

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