Does God condone slavery?

by crownboy 7 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  crownboy

  The September 8th, 2001 Awake aimed to answer this question. To say the least, this is a topic of great controversy and embarrassment for Christains.

  Essentially, the Awake said that God is unequivocally opposed to oppresive forms of slavery (as if any type of slavery is not considered oppresive to the one being enslaved) and that he demonstrated his opposition to such slavery by freeing the Isrealites from the oppresive Eyptians (but of course leaving slaves under more despotic conditions to fend for themselves).

  They acknowledged that God allowed the Isrealites to own slaves, but not opression of them (an example given was that the Isrealites could take women as slaves, but could only have sex with them if they made them their wives. In the "opressive" forms the women would have sex with their masters without the benefit of marriage and only for the masters sexual gratification.) If God thought all men were created equal, why would he allow slavery? (Maybe because the slaves laws weren't actually made by him

  As for slavery in the times of Rome, the Awake simply states : "Slavery was part of the economic system of the Roman Empire... But does this mean that disciples of Christ were abusive slaves owners? Hardly! Regardless of what Roman law permitted, we can be sure that Christains did not mistreat those under their authority. (Tell that to an African slave who was taken to America, and more than likely had a Christain master.)

  And of course, in typical JW fashion, they said that all the problems of slavery and man dominating man will be solved in the new system (I guess even "good" Isrealite- Christain slavery will be condemned by God then ).

  I found the whole argument of "Good Slavery- Bad Slavery" quite unsatisfactory. They're other more benign areas that had no gray areas (e.g. extra marital sex) but with something as life altering and potentially dangerous as slavery, God gave the thumbs up. For those of you who can reconcile the idea of God condoning slavery and being good (or just anyone with a comment) please tell how you do it, because it is beyond my comprehension how most can do it.

  Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!
• 

  wannahelp

  Do you have a scanner? I'd love to see that article.. That's amazing they are actually saying some slavery is good..!!!

  I can imagine that is to quell the "truth" that they are slaves of men.. Next time you goto a JW and tell him/her that they are slaves to man, I can see the answer now.. Yeah, but god says it's a good slavery!!! <disgusting!>
• 

  crownboy

  Sorry wannahep, unfortunately I don't have a scanner. (Maybe you can get one from a JW out in "street work", it's the Awake about depressed teens). The article isn't taking any kind of "pro slavery" stance, it's just trying to reconcile the fact that loving bible God condoned a practice that is obviously evil. They are trying to defend (what I believe to be) the indefensible by creating a thesis (Good slavery- Bad slavery) that would make God good but not a monster for allowing slavery. My point has more to do with the Christain response (through the lense of the JW's) to the problem and not JW's being pro slavery.

  Right on with (most) JW's being slaves of men. (I'm still an active one myself, though not by choice ).

  Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!
• 

  Unclepenn1

  Slavery in the OT times is not what we think of it today, with the atrocities of the african slaves and all. It had to do with the financial structure of the culture. If you were indebted to someone, you could pay them back by being their servant, i.e. slave, but it was a respectful relationship where the servant had a choice to stay or leave when the debt was paid, but usually stayed with the family for financial reasons.

  (Deut 15:12-18) If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free.
  13 And when you release him, do not send him away empty-handed.
  14 Supply him liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you.
  15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.
  16 But if your servant says to you, "I do not want to leave you," because he loves you and your family and is well off with you,
  17 then take an awl and push it through his ear lobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your maidservant.
  18 Do not consider it a hardship to set your servant free, because his service to you these six years has been worth twice as much as that of a hired
  hand. And the LORD your God will bless you in everything you do.

  Hope that helps,

  Penn

  Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
  Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
  Jesus- 'I am the truth'
• 

  HoChiMin

  Crownboy,

  Of course god condones slavery! Just look at Bethal workers.

  HCM
• 

  Francois

  "Oppressive slavery"? IMO, that's just more JW double-talk, newspeak, or whatever you wanna call it. Tries to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And the people who believe them. Christ what a disappoinotment to know there are some people with that much shit for brains.

  Francois
• 

  Satanus

  'In the "opressive" forms the women would have sex with their masters without the benefit of marriage and only for the masters sexual gratification'

  So when abraham, the father of all having faith, ie father of all in the new covenant, sexed his slave, he was oppressive, just out for gratification. Now i understand, one rule for abraham, father of the new covenant, another rule for everybody else.

  They had another name for sex slaves back then...concubines. Soloman had thousands of sex slaves. You must remember, women were bought, sold, given just like cows or horses. Jehovah worshippers were so much better than other nations, weren't they?
• 

  RunningMan

  The idea that there is "Good" slavery that is non-abusive and much like
  employment is complete and utter bullshit. It is simply a means of justifying
  their behaviour and making it palatable to modern audiences.

  Here are some other slavery references from the Bible:

  Ex 21:20:21 - a slave is your property, you can beat him almost to death. If he lingers for two
  days, then dies of his wounds, it is not even a crime, because "he is your money".
  Ex 21:7-11 - a man can sell his daughter into slavery to pay a debt
  Ex 21:28-32 - if an ox gores a man it is to be put to death, if it does it twice, the owner is
  to be put to death. If it kills a slave, only 30 sheckels are to be paid. Slaves aren't worth as
  much as real people
  Lev 19:20, 21 - if a man has sex with an betrothed slave, it was no big deal. The death
  penalty does not apply, because she "was not free". A sacrifice would suffice.
  Lev 25:44-46 - foreign slaves can be kept forever and willed to descendents

  Let's face it, the Bible didn't know any better that the people who wrote it.