Baptism Questions Question

by Mrs. Witness 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  Mrs. Witness

  Hi! Again, against my therapist's suggestion, I got into a doctrinal discussion with Mr. Witness. I told him I'd been coming here and he doesn't like it (too bad, so sad). Anyway, I told him part of it was that I was keeping up with the $ociety's teachings. He told me that I should be less worried about the WTBTS because I wasn't married to the WT. It occured to me later that no, I'm not married to the WTBTS but he IS! I want to prove it to him by using the baptism questions...does anyone have a copy to post.

  I'm leaving for the day...I eagerly look forward to any comments that come my way. Thanks in advance!

  Mrs. Witness.
• 

  Sunspot

  Are these what you were looking for?;

  The newest baptismal questions, from the June 1, 1985 Watchtower:

  (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
  
  (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Sure is a far cry from what Jesus himself instructed to baptize HIS followers in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, isn't it?.

  hugs,

  Annie
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  Mrs. Witness

  Thanks Annie! That's it exactly!
• 

  jgnat

  There's a hundred more, by the way. I posted some highlights here:

  http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/jgnat/UBM/index.blog/1110914/baptism-questions-organized-to-do-jehovahs-will/

  Why are you confronting your husband now, against your therapist's suggestion? What do you hope to accomplish?
• 

  Mrs. Witness

  JGnat, I don't set out to confront him, it just happens. He asked me why I came to JWD and I said "for support, to read others' experiences, and to keep up on the latest teachings (without having to read all the crap in his magazines)". He made some comment about something doctrinal (I can't remember what...I must have blocked it out ) and we fell down the slippery slope into JW land. I just can't let it go when he makes dumb comments about stuff that he's read that is so blatantly incorrect. I really have to work on just letting it go!

  Thanks for the link, I haven't looked at it yet but am going there right now.
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  jgnat

  Oh, yes, there are some stupid remarks I will not let pass. A forbidden topic in our home is to make fun of Christendom.

  The reason I ask is that it pays to work out what you hope to accomplish before you go in to battle. If you know why you are doing and what you want out of it, you will be more focused in your replies.

  It is a legitimate concern to wonder how much of the Watchtower lifestyle is going to affect the marriage. How much time is he going to spend away? When are the two of you going to have "alone time"? Is he going to allow the Watchtower instructions, say, on the bedroom affect your relationship? How about holidays?
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  carla

  The suggestion is just that, a suggestion not an order that must be followed. There are times you do need to prove a point with jw's that the wt did in fact say a certain thing. Does it change anything? Usuallly not, but then again there are those seeds of flip flops hanging out there for the jw to ponder. And sometimes you do it just for your own satisfaction knowing full well it willl not 'accomplish' anything. There is no magic bullet, no 'right' way to attempt to remove someone from the clutches of the wt otherwise we wouldn't all be here discussing how to plant the seeds of doubt and there would be more threads with titles like ' He decided to leave!!!' How many therapists are truly informed about the jw's? It is just as dangerous to follow a therapist as god as the jw follows the wt as god. Therapists can suggest. I have heard near horror stories of familly counselors who nearly destroyed the family due to 'suggestions' that sounded insane to begin with much less with the whole darn family checking their own critical thinking at the door. Common sense must prevail.
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  Mrs. Witness

  Yeah, I did plant a seed one time and it sent him running to his elder (I call him the used car salesman) who gave him a Proclaimers book. I guess he was ambushed by the fact that I knew more about his religion's history than he did. Too bad he got his history from THEM rather than a reliable source!

  Carla, I agree with what you said about therapists. She's a good sounding board, but since I've been going by myself, we've discussed divorce more. Funny enough, we once talked to the used car salesman and, after he stopped talking about himself, almost immediately started talking about a separation and how it's OK because it's in the scriptures. Seems like neither the marriage counselor nor the elder are interested in actually helping to save a marriage!

  One of the things we did discuss was how he can't self-regulate and he needs the borg to tell him what to think, where to be, how to dress, act, blah blah blah. At first he took offense, then he re-stated it and I said "see, you just admitted it, you need them to tell you how to be...you don't even know who you are without the JW label." I think that's the most disheartening part of it all. He's been brainwashed for so long that any independent thought he has is "evil", he really believes it.

  His mom kicked him out at about 15 (such a loving Christian woman, that one). He had been drinking & doing drugs and instead of getting him help...oh, yeah, I forgot, she did get him help...she had some elders come talk to him , she kicked him out so that he wouldn't influence his younger brother & sister. So, of course, he was "dead" in his eyes so he continued to drink and smoke then he went into the service and learned how to be a trained killer. He was good at that for awhile then continued to drink & smoke...this went on for over another 15 years. When we got together, I told him no more booze & drugs. That worked as far as the booze & drugs, but the thought is still there that he can't be a good husband & father without the WTBTS. Our first couple years were horrible because he was trying to convert me and wanted us to be "Super Witness Family"...no TV, no rock & roll, no caffeine or sweet food...and I hate to admit this...in the interest of trying to get along and be a good wife...he convinced me to throw out my extensive Stephen King collection. Finally, when he went back to the WTBTS against my wishes, I lost it and went to the Methodist Church I went to as a child and he about lost his mind...blah blah blah...I'm getting long winded, sorry.

  Basically, my poor hubby is lost to THEM and I am really afraid I can't get him back. I can keep throwing things up to him, but I am convinced it's to no avail. Now I am trying to figure out how to keep my girls from it.

  Thanks for your support & feedback!
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  carla

  Yeah, the used car salesman tried to get my jw to think seperation was ok too for awhile. My main thing was to keep my kids from the hell and the influence of the wt. He knows full well he can't even discuss anything related jw or I will kick in with my knowledge and history of the wt. It drives him crazy too that I know more of the history and teachings of the wt. I do get confused on few things that have flip flopped though. For a loooong while I never let him alone with the kids because I knew he would try to preach to them. It is difficult but not impossible. Since he is the one who broke our agreement to keep the kids out of the whole damn mess, I have since edcucated my kids about cults, the wt, scandals, personal stories, suicides, etc.... They were quite interested in the Richie saga when that was going on.

  I would say my jw's brain is owned by the borg lock stock and barrel. If he brings up some stupidass science or world view I know full well came from the wt while out I sure will call him on where he got his info. Funny thing is he never admits it was the wt. Embarrassed I guess. Luckily I usually know what new craziness is coming long before him and can research it before he gets word from Mother. What they don't seem to get for a long time is that being a jw keeps you immature. If you are a bible believer, usually a Christian believes one should become mature and make decisions for oneself. They keep them as little children unable to blow their own noses without asking what the correct way is. The hard decisions in life should be made from your own heart, because it is the right thing to do not because you fear punishment for doing the opposite. The love of Christ should guide the Christian. I know with my own kids that if I expect the best from them they also expect the best from themselves. Someday they will be out in the world at large and I hope they have learned how to make decisions for themselves without having to run to mommy for everything. That is part of being an adult, being responisble for yourself. My jw does see this point sometimes and can even relate it to the jw's but when you see jw's every other day it is hard to keep up with the repitition of the wt.

  I think I know where you are at, at the begining for us it was sheer hell. We have come to a truce for the moment. Who knows, maybe later we will have a riproaring jw discussion! ha, I hope not, today I just don't have the heart for it. Hang in there, things can improve even if you find the wt and his involvement totally digusting. That's the hard part isn't it? The days you can equate being married to a jw and their true evilness (blood, pedophile, etc..) to wondering how a women felt being married to Nazi. Did she know? did she feel the disgust and wonder how the hell to get out? Sometimes I look at it like a mental illness and have pity on him. Somedays you simply play little psychological tricks with yourself to get through the day.
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  Mrs. Witness

  You hit it on the nose. Some days are so "normal" and others are just wrong. I don't know where to draw the line. I have trouble because I'm so angry at him and it affects me & the kids so much! I just can't figure out which is better or what the "last straw" will be for me.