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Watchtowers Investment in Warfare Technology

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1 >

    Wow, I never knew how this topic could divide people.  I'm reminded of what Gary Buss says about the Jehovah's Witness people.  "Watchtower hates the Jehovah's Witnesses."  In other words, it is just fine and dandy that Watchtower can join the UN as a NGO and own Tobacco and Military stock, but the average JW had better never join the YMCA or work for a company that builds military equipment.

    Clearly though, the Watchtower has never said a JW can't work for a company who happens to make military items.  That would be a matter for the "Bible Trained Conscience" and a few over zealous Elders who make up their own stupid rules.

  • MidwichCuckoo
    MidwichCuckoo >
    I agree with other posters - Hypocrisy. But I also wonder, why does God's Organisation NEED to have stocks/shares in ANYTHING Worldly? Surely It should be self-supporting?
  • Jringe01
    Jringe01 >

    Once again this is an issue where there are few people who make their own interpretation of certain things and then push it along as something that must be followed.

    This is it exactly.

    Well the big deal is that when I was younger and worked in a local grocery store, not as a cashier, I was pulled in to a JC meeting and told because the store I worked for sold cigs that I HAD to quit otherwise there would be dire consequences.

    See now when I was in I worked in a corner store that sold tobacco, several others in my and indeed neighbouring congregations worked in corner stores/grocery stores that sold tobacco. In the store I worked in we sold tobacco pizza, sandwiches, groceries, junk food and rented movies however tobacco was the bread winner. My main responsibility was the food counter and the cash. Nothing was ever said because for all their faults the elders in my end of Canada had the common sense to realize that just because you worked in a place that sold these things didn't mean you supported the use of these products. Every person has to make a decision based on what they believe and desire and although I may not approve of the choices of others I do have to respect their right to make them (which is something the overwhelming majority of this planet's population refuses to accept.)

    In fact I distinctly remember being told the issue was a conscience matter and that it came from the platform. I got rid of 95% of my WTS stuff..maybe someone can call up the relevant articles. I believe it was either a Watchtower or Kingdom Ministry. Prove me wrong someone.

    I am sorry that some elders apparently insisted that jw's can't work in a situation like mine however you have to realize that any such guidance from the elders was completely out in left feild especially considering that (I believe) it is in print that the decision is one of conscience. Just as the first quote says it's a few people making their own interpretation of events.

    One of the reasons I left the JW was because I came to the realization that people are stupid. They will believe and do whatever they want no matter what their official belief, philosophy or rules are and once they settle on something nothing can dissuade them. This is the single biggest threat the WTS has to combat, the natural tendency of humans to put their own spin on things. Like the jw I once knew who liked living in mid size towns and insisted that he had read that there would be towns (hamlets) in the new order even though such a verse was not to be found. He knows and believes that he read that and also belives that everyone will have their hearts desire fullfilled in the new world so he won't be disuaded.

    Human beings are such simple and gullible creatures, easily persuaded to believe the most outrageous things imaginable. Since we live by belief once you get ahold of that belief you can twist it to whatever purpose you desire. Joseph Gobbles proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. watch any disaster movie. Who survive, the wise ones, the people who think instead of reacting in blind panic. Alien invasion, floods, earthquakes, asteroids..bring em on. The thing I fear is not the disaster itself but the people around me. Their ignorance, stupidity and lack of reasoned response will constitute the greatest threat to my life, not the disaster itself. Katrina proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    For the record in 2005, 35.2% of all the revenue of Altria Group (Phillip Morris) came from Food and International Finance. They produce Shake n' Bake, all Kraft products, Mr Christie, etc. Do we know if the revenue the Society gets from Phillip Morris comes from the tobacco or food divisions? is Kraft traded seperately or as Phillip Morris? We cannot avoid supporting such companies entirely. If there's a pie they have a finger in it somewhere. However now that Phillip Morris has announced they will spin off Kraft and concentrate on their tobacco activity the question of what the WTS will do with that portion of the donation from the trust becomes more interesting.

  • Jringe01
    Jringe01 >

    And to jump back to the topic at hand there are two issues about the WTS supposed involvement in this war technology that puzzle me.

    The first is this statement:

    The letter above plainly contradicts their own SEC legal filings filed repeatedly for the last 16 years:

      "Rand Energy Group is owned 51% by Reg Technologies Inc. and 49% by Rand Cam Engine Corp. Rand Cam Engine Corp. is a privately held company whose stock is reportedly owned 50% by The Watchtower Society, a religious organization, 34% by James McCann and the balance by several other shareholders. Mr. McCann has indicated that he donated the shares held by The Watchtower Societyto that organization but has retained a voting proxy for those shares. Accordingly, in Notes (3) and (4) above, beneficial ownership of the 5,073,200 shares registered in the name of Rand Energy Group Inc. has been attributed to The Watchtower Society  and Mr. McCann.

    The words " reported.." seems to indicate that there may be some doubt. If there was no doubt then they would have said "...whose stock is owned.." not reportedly owned. Reportedly is a word used to make a claim that is not actually verified. (I remember reading that Mark Twain used such words when in his reporting days an editor told him never to state anything as fact that he could not verify from personal knowledge. The resulting story he turned in after that advise is quite funny.)

    Another thing is the fact the article makes mention of the fact that the WTS would have recieved SEC info etc for the past 16 years. However if this above quote from the SEC is true and Mr. McCann did indeed retain voting proxy then as the so called "representative" of the WTS would not the SEC info have been sent to him and not to Brooklyn? As I understand these matters when you or your office is considerd to be the official rep of a company (as the statement about voting proxy would indicate) then it's the official rep that gets all that info correct? It would then be up to the rep and/or the office of the rep to make a report to the rest of the company. How do we know that if asked for an address to send the SEC info to Mr McCann didn't just provide his office or some other address because after all he is their rep. All info about the company and it's performance would naturally be sent to him since he holds the voting proxy and there would be no need to involve the WTS directly because their representative is Mr McCann.

    It could be an attempt to distance the Society so they could claim no direct knowledge because they really recieved none of the papers they should have

    It could me McCann trying to funnel $$ to the Society and keep the source from them for whatever reason (is he still a jw in good standing?)

    Someone could be setting up or trying to set up the Society.

  • lighthouse19something
    lighthouse19something >
    I believe Mc Cann kept the voting proxy so the WTS  could claim they do not have any control of the stock, not even able to sell it without the proxy. Was the proxy wts' idea for plausible deniability?
  • Gerard
    Gerard >
    whose stock is reportedly owned 50% by The Watchtower Society, a religious organization,

    'Reportedly owned' because their own SEC file reported that. Any way, the WT is listed as a majority shareholder owner.

    It is a good point that McCann, as proxy, may have kept all communication private. But the stocks were donated, accepted and kept by the WT for about 16 years and nobody asked what the manufactured product was???





  • Gerard
    Gerard >
    Someone could be setting up or trying to set up the Society.

    The rotary vane engine technology was invented by two JWs, James McCann and another guy, a technician. I was able to locate and comunicate with this technician  -who by the way, posted in this bulletin- confirming the invention, registry, sale of all rights to RandCam and subsequent stocks donation to the WT.  He also explained how McCann, an honorable JW, gave him the shaft from the sale and all royalties.

    If the search function is ever activated by Simon, I could refer you to that thread.


  • jwsons
    jwsons >
    Nobody can deliberately use the name of Watchtower without the Society concern. If you don't believe me, just launch a company so-call "Watchtower Bible, Escort and Brothel services" and you will see. No matter "is reported" or "reported." Watchtower Society agreed in 16 years and got benefit. It seems to me that Mr. McCann donate some of benefits from his shares to WTS with compliment that he can use the name of WTS as "religious group" which benefits this shares amount just to avoid tax (charity donation). Just a Mutual Benefit. Don't tell me that WTS didn't know about it for years.
  • baddjuju
    baddjuju >

    WOW the hypocrisy never ceases to end with these people! And not surprised to see the apologists and sock-puppets here arguing these facts.

  • baddjuju
    baddjuju >

    If this were an error then the SEC should be notified of such errors. That is a major error punishible by imprisonment. It's called fraud. Anyways here is a the Annual Report that was filed to the SEC.

    Please save a copy on your harddrive as we all know that this will dissappear soon. 



Watchtowers Investment in Warfare Technology

by carla in just a reminder and for newbies

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