Angelic DNA

by Woodsman 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Woodsman

  In considering the WTs beliefs about the Angels who came down and had sex with women, producing offspring I began to wonder.

  This would mean that Angels have the abilility to create a human life without God's help. Both by creating a human body and taking possesion of it and by then using that body to create offspring.

  This whole business of materializing is suspicious. To materialize as an aparition, something that looks like a human in order to communicate is one thing. To materialize to reproduce is another. Those Angels were genetically human. Their DNA was compatible with Human DNA enough to enable breeding. Yet it had enough differences from the DNA in humans at that time that the offspring were all recognizably different from the general population.

  The only difference, according to the WT's view, is the life force. The WT maintains that a human is two ingredients, physical body and life force from God.

  These materialized Angels had made physical bodies that were human but how did they create the life force? If the Angel just took possesion of the Human body then this body was not a "living soul" but a "living soul" was IN the body. This is exactly what the soul doctrine maintains, namely we are sentient beings or souls possesing fleshly bodies. We will leave these bodies at death. But we will still be us.

  Another possibility is that materialization is another state of existence for an Angelic creature. That they can be in Spiritual form in another dimension or in physical form in this dimension.

  Another option might be that the Angels were able to kill themselves and instill their "lifeforce" in the human body then at death resurrect themselves back to Angelic existence. This is what the WT says Jehovah did with Jesus.Not possible for the Angels unless Jehovah was helping them.

  I also wonder if Angels had the power to create a human body and human DNA why not create DNA that was a match for the population on earth at that time. Why was it noticably different?

  One final thought is that the Angels or Gods have always had this DNA and simply came down to reproduce with a population that was decended from their DNA stock? Like crossing a wild cat back with a domestic cat. The offsrpring would be noticable different than the domestic cat.
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  truthseeker

  Woodsman, interesting topic.

  Some have said that the Nephilim had both a physical body AND a spiritual one, because of their paternal angelic father.

  When they died at the flood, the physical body did die, but the spiritual body didn't and that is why demons (Nephilim) are always searching for someone to possess, to have their tactile physical sensations back.

  When Jesus expelled the demons from the dude who busted out of chains, they begged Jesus not to send them into the abyss. He permitted them to enter into the swine.

  The swine promptly rushed over the cliff and drowned. But where did the demons go next?

  As for angelic DNA, it would make sense for Nephilim to have thier own angelically enhanced DNA - I don't know whether giganticism was deliberatle or just an after effect of this peculiar attempt at reproduction.

  JW's will say that children of angels were hybrid, they couldn't reproduce, simply from observations in the animal world, i.e. a zorse (horse/zebra).

  However, if the angels had that much power to reproduce, why should we assume that their offspring were hybrid? If they could alter DNA to change the population, there's every reason to believe that that giants married and had children.

  JW's might argue that Jehovah would never permit nephilim to reproduce, but they forget that God permitted angels to come down and procreate with women.

  Now, some questions about the nephilim.

  Did anyone kill a Nephilim? How about 3 humans vs 1 Nephilim? If so, where was the body buried and does this substantiate the finds of very large human skeletons who were presumably our ancestors? Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal?

  Noah does not report anything on angel/human hybrids throughout the anti-diluvian period he lived in.

  When the demons returned to heaven, did their human body disappear or die?

  some food for thought.
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  dmouse

  Several answers come to mind...

  1. Perhaps the angels are created to be able to exist in two forms - physical and spiritual. The bible speaks of Jesus, in physical form, as being 'a little lower than angels' so an angel in physical form would be similer enough for their DNA to be compatible with humans. (subject to the 'zorse' effect).

  2. The fallen angels must have known God would be pissed try something, and Noah's preaching was a dead givaway as to the method. Why didn't they press-gang a bunch of humans to build them a boat, just in case?

  3. It's just a fairy story, written by ancient people with no knowledge of DNA.
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  Woodsman

  I believe most Biblical stories are just stories. But I wonder if as is the case with many stories there was something that sparked the telling of it in the first place.

  So much religious and historical evidence indicates that humans were visited by "gods". I find the Biblical account that the "gods" bred with humans to be interesting.

  I know that no Christian could answers such questions about Angelic DNA but I'm curious if they even consider it and what they speculate. My JW wife for example had never considered it. She postulated that Angels appear in this dimension in physical bodies, they don't posses a body but are the body with their same Angelic lifeforce. I don't care to make matter of fact suggestions about stories that may be ficticious but prefer to note the story as well as all others and consider it in my view of the universe I live in.
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  Justahuman24

  It is hard to explain it because the Bible doesn't give lots of details and DNA is sooo complicated. The Bible says that the "sons of God" came down to earth and had intercourse with women. This would mean they materialized bodies. I don't think they were or had two natures. As angels, being very powerful and way smarter than humans, they could just easily materialize themselves, which they did. In fact, angels HAVE to materialize in order to be seen by humans. Those angels that were messengers of God and appeared to Abraham, Jacob and others materialized only for a short time. They even ate. Also, remember that the angel that conteded with Jacob had to be materialized in order for Jacob to see him and grapple with him. But the angel asked Jacob to let him go because it was almost morning. So, it maybe that angels have the ability to materialize for our benefit e.g. so we can see them, but that they're not supposed to stay in that form for long, possible so they don't fall into the temptation that the demons did e.g. wanting to breed with human women.

  The nephilim weren't necessary giants. I'm sure some of them were or many of them. But they were also strong. Their differences didn't have to be physical. Also, the nephilim were hybrids because two different "natures" were breeding. And it could be that as a result of that, mutations were created in the offspring. The Bible doesn't say that the demons were the nephilim. The nephilim were the sons of angels and humans so it wasn't them that when the flood happened, went back to heaven. The nephilim died, all of them, when the Flood happened. It was the angels who de-materialized themselves - got rid of their human bodies - in order for them to go back to heaven.

  It must've been some mutation that caused the nephilim to be giants or some of them but they were mostly known for their super-strength. Goliath was not a hybrid yet he was taller than "normal". So, it was also probably some mutationn in the DNA. It doesn't point to an evolutionary trait. Also, the Amalekites were big in stature.

  justahuman - but super nonetheless
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  funkyderek

  DNA wasn't discovered until the 20th century. The myths of Genesis were invented thousands of years earlier, by people who had virtually no understanding of genetics. It would be surprising if these stone age legends corresponded in any way to modern science.
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  jayhawk1

  I believe most Biblical stories are just stories. But I wonder if as is the case with many stories there was something that sparked the telling of it in the first place.

  I too wonder if there isn't something more than just a legend to these stories. One possibility not mentioned is these angels was aliens from another planet who selected human women as mates. The problem with that is why didn't the aliens have women that human men got with? Another problem is if there was an alien culture that visited thousands of years ago, why haven't they been back? Or why aren't they still here?

  Sometimes myths are myths and lengends are legends.
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  LittleToe

  If the story is more than a myth, having some roots in historic events, then it at least shows that the people of that time were aware that something about the parents has an effect of the resultant child.

  Many bible scholars hold that it was two distinct tribes or families that mixed (sons of man : sons of God / disapproved : approved), with a resultant new combination that was stronger than the sum of its progenitors.

  Modern genetics reveals the mechanisms of what is being described in layman's terms in Genesis (albeit with an elaborate little story surrounding it, which was an acceptable way for people to communicate things back then - it made it more memorable, especially for the illiterate).

  The Bible isn't a science textbook, but it does have some interesting wee stories.
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  zensim

  Scientists and geneticists are now recognising that what they used to term 'junk DNA' is not really junk. Basically, they just didn't know what it did. Human potential extends far beyond our reality and what we currently think is possible. As we grow more and more, strands of dna open up to humankind and we are literally evolving.

  One example, even though a lot of people are sceptical of 'psychics' for instance (and I am not going to get into a debate about charlatans and ego power trippers), science is beginning to understand the phenomena of intuition and communication on different energy levels and have been able to prove it in a logical way. As science begins to understand it and it becomes logical, it becomes more normal, then becomes accepted (that is, not feared because it is no longer 'unknown') and then becomes commonplace. Imagine 50 years ago someone (waaaaay ahead of their time) trying to explain the concept of the internet to everyone back then - they would have been labelled as crazy or demonic! Reality is first created by the imagination and then made manifest in the physical.

  An excellent example of how consciousness works is of Roger Bannister, the first person to run the 100 mile in under 4 mins. Basically, breakthroughs happen all the time. All it needs is one or two people to believe that something is possible when everyone else says it is impossible, and as soon as they prove it, it becomes possible for everyone. This happens everyday all the time and our lives as we know it in 2007 are testatment to this fact (technology is a great example of this).

  I believe in different dimensions and I think themes of visitations from the spirit realm (angels, aliens, call them what you will, same thoughts, different time) are so commonplace, in the bible and everywhere else, that there is truth to them. We just don't have the understanding yet of precisely what it is, and if we don't understand it we try and come up with a logical 'story' so that we can feel comfortable with not knowing.

  It is possible for certain combinations of dna strands to create a hybrid - that is, an opening in the dna strands that creates greater potential than is normally standard human possibility (or so we think). It is no different to having an autistic child who is an idiot savant. So it is not unlikely that there were once a breed of people - the Nephilim - that had super strength due to some anomaly in that particular combination of dna. Whether it was as the bible relates it is not known. I tend to think that the Nephilim were real, but given the very limited intellectual and scientific knowledge of the day, the only way they could make sense of such an anomaly was to fit it in with their spiritual belief system of the day.