Blood matters - unbelieving spouse

by HAL9000 8 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • HAL9000
    HAL9000

    I am well aware of the JW attitude to blood transfusions - one would have to be deaf dumb blind and stupid to have missed it. Where I am coming from relates to my personal situation as a rational being and not one of the chosen. I am sure that this question has been asked before, so you must excuse me on that count!

    In case you missed my intial posts, my wife has been studying with the JWs since 2000 (or so) but is not baptised nor a publisher. She has strong personal beliefs relating to blood transfusions predating her association with the Dubs arising from her experiences - she will not accept blood under any circumstances.

    My dilemma is this: I have utterly no objection to blood transfusions as if I am faced with the prospect of death or disability arising from blood loss I will accept the transfusion. What's more, in an emergency I would expect that treatment to be applied. In an attempt to satify my curiousity I asked my wife what she thought that the JW position would be. This is important as I may need to rely on her in an emergency. She knows my wishes for my own healthcare. Hmmmmm. Deep thought. Got to consult with Cleaner's spouse.

    The answer that came back was that if she knew my wishes, as a JW she would be bound to observe them: ie to allow a transfusion. Is this correct, or is this Theocratic warfare? I personally suspect the latter but I lack the background to work it out. Perhaps someone could clarify this for me.
    My level of disquiet on this has led me to carry a "blood card"" that is somewhat different in intent to the Dub one. It is double signed attesting to my wishes and carrys an appropriate contact.

    While I trust my wife, I do not know what the future will bring nor what pressures would be brought to bear in an emergency.

    My friends, I await your counsel!

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    If you are not a JW they don't care at all whether you will receive a blood transfusion or not in an emergency, it's only about their own that they are strict though in the recent past they are gradually diminishing the extend of the ban.

  • Scully
    Scully

    HAL:

    I think you've done the smart thing: Trust your wife to respect your wishes, but have a back up plan.

    Since you aren't a JW, the Hospital Liaison Committee will not interfere if there is an emergency and you have made it clear that you will accept a blood transfusion. The "blood card" that you described as having made for yourself, sounds like what we would call an Advance Medical Directive. If you have it signed and witnessed appropriately, it will stand up in the event that you are not conscious, and would override any verbal instructions from your spouse.

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises

    She is probably being honest with you. The problem is if you are in the hospital, the dubs show up, they will start pressuring her. You don't want her in that position. That is the best way I have found to handle these things. If decision making is questionable, simply remove that responsibility. For yourself, and for her. I would still see about getting a legal medical pre-directive that handles this case. There are other cases that are important as well. Everybody should think about and talk to their spouse and doctor about how you would want certain situations handled.

    Your wife has been studying since 2000? How do you feel about that? How do you feel about the jw?

    I am the unbelieiving mate (ubm for short, that just means I dont' believe the jw are chosen by God any more than you or I) and the blood issue has come up in very personal ways for our family. If you have any specific questions about how to handle what can be a very problematic and difficult relationship, let me know. I am a fairly experienced ubm, and I have alot of ubm friends here. We talk alot and help eachother out with ideas.

    You probably don't have alot of people that understand you or your situation.

    CYP

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Here is an interesting Watchtower article about this very subjuct... only for a Pet.

    Feb 15, 1964 Watchtower pp. 127-128 Questions From Readers

    Questions

    From Readers

    ?

    Would it be a violation of the Scriptures for a Christian to permit a veterinarian to give blood transfusions to a pet? And what of animal food? May it be used if there is reason to believe there is blood in it? Also, is it permissible to use fertilizer that has blood in it?

    The psalmist declared at Psalm 119:97: "How I do love your law! All day long it is my concern." Such a love of God’s law and a concern for it would surely cause a dedicated servant of God to avoid any violation of God’s law whatsoever. God’s law on blood is very clear. Blood is not to be used as food and, when withdrawn from a body, it is to be poured out on the ground. (Gen. 9:3, 4; Lev. 3:17; Deut. 12:16, 23, 24; Acts 15:20, 28, 29) Christians certainly would not wish to do anything in violation of Jehovah’s law on blood. Love for God and for the righteous laws and principles of his Word calls forth that response from them in matters pertaining to blood.

    Since God’s law on blood has not been altered over the centuries, Christians today realize that they are bound by it. Please note, however, that it is not fear of some reprisal that moves them to comply with Jehovah’s law on blood. They do not obey God’s law simply because violation of it might result in the imposing of sanctions by the Christian congregation of which they are a part. They love what is right. Furthermore, because of their love of God’s law they will not rationalize or seek ways in which it appears possible to circumscribe it with seeming impunity.

    How, then, must we answer the question, Would it be a violation of the Scriptures for a Christian to permit a veterinarian to give blood transfusions to a pet? By all means, to do so would be a violation of the Scriptures. To use blood for transfusion purposes, even in the case of an animal, would be improper. The Bible is very clear in showing that blood should not be eaten. It should not be infused, therefore, to build up the body’s vital forces, either in the case of a human or in the case of a pet or any other animal under the jurisdiction of a Christian.

    In harmony with this, surely a Christian parent could not rationalize to the effect that a pet belongs to a minor child and thus this unbaptized child might, on its own, authorize a veterinarian to administer the blood. No. The baptized parent bears the responsibility, for that parent has authority over the child and over the pet and should control the entire matter. That is the parent’s obligation before God.—Eccl. 12:13, 14; Jas. 4:17.

    What, then, of animal food? May it be used if there is reason to believe there is blood in it? As far as a Christian is concerned, the answer is No, on the basis of principles already mentioned. Therefore, if a Christian discovers that blood components are listed on the label of a container of dog food or some other animal food, he could not conscientiously feed that product to any animal over which he has jurisdiction. He could not conclude that doing so would be excusable, for this would not be a case of an animal killing another animal and helping itself to the blood of that creature. No, this would be a direct act on the part of the Christian, making him responsible for feeding blood to a pet or other animal belonging to him.

    Of course, if there is no indication on the label of a package of animal food that the product contains blood, a Christian might conclude that it could be used. Still, his conscience might trouble him. In that case he should put his conscience to rest by making reasonable inquiry and acting in accord with the information he receives, for a Christian surely desires to have a good conscience before God.—1 Pet. 3:21.

    But now, what about fertilizer that has blood in it? One who is going to show respect for God’s law on blood would not use it. True, according to the Mosaic law, blood when taken from a body was to be poured out upon the ground and covered over with dust. (Lev. 17:13, 14) The objective was, however, that the blood should serve no useful purpose when thus disposed of. It was not placed on the ground with the thought in mind that it would serve as fertilizer. Hence, no Christian farmer today could properly spread blood on his fields to fertilize the soil, nor would he use commercial fertilizer containing blood. Such blood use would be a commercializing on something that God has reserved for himself. It would be a violation of God’s Word.

    Servants of God have been told in the Scriptures what is to be done with blood. So they know that they would be held responsible by Jehovah for any misuse of blood over which they might have control. What is more, because they love God they are prompted to observe the laws and principles of his Word. Thus they are moved to keep Jehovah’s law on blood even in ways that might appear to some to be insignificant. They do not view compliance with it as an encumbrance, for they hold in remembrance the words of 1 John 5:3, which states: "For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome."

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Hal, could we hear a little more detail on how your wife got mixed up with the witnesses? And, for that matter - how dedicated is she to becoming a full fledged JW?

    Somehow, it just seems to me that a person that has studied with them since 2000 has some issues with giving them total commitment -

    Maybe there is hope here after all -

    (at least I hope so)

    James

  • Emma
    Emma
    Servants of God have been told in the Scriptures what is to be done with blood.

    This is what always galls me! If blood is to be "poured out" how can they allow the use of factions! This got to me when I was a faithful jw, too. It it's to be poured out, then pour it out!

    As far as your wife, if she was a dub I think she'd deny you the transfusion; I would have even for my dad who was not a jw. Your safe bet is to have your back up plans, tell your dr and the local hospital.

  • FreeFromWTBS
    FreeFromWTBS

    You may also want to consider assigning your medical power over to someone else or have you wishes drafted by a lawyer. I know of a case of a women, I'll call her Betty. Betty was

    studying with a JW women. Betty had not even stepped foot in a Kingdom Hall, she only had weekly studies in her home. Betty was going in for surgery. The JW she was studying with tried to convince

    Betty that she should sign her medical power of attorney over to the JW instead of her Mother so that she would not receive a blood transplant. Now I think even from the societies point of

    view that this women over stepped her boundaries but I have seen JW's do very bizarre things and when things don't turn out how they planned, they deny deny deny

  • HAL9000
    HAL9000

    Thanks for your observations. My decision to carry an advance medical directive was the outcome of a lengthy discussion with a close friend who is a barrister. His concern was that in an emergency, and given the highly litigious nature of our society, anything could happen.

    Other influences are a concern. The CO at the local congregation (lovely person) has what I regard as an extreme view on blood: he will is a vegeterian and does not condone the use of fertiliser containing blood products in his garden (all biblically justified, mind you, but is viewed as extreme by the congregation). Given this type of influence, perhaps you may understand my concern.

    By the way, I am on "reasonable" terms with the local elders, although I am certain that they know my reluctance... no it is more than that... my rejection of any overture on their part to engage in their activities. I am civil to them and engage with them in a normal non-religious sense (as much as it is possible with a JW). At least I have, to date, avoided the problems of active interference in my relationship.

    How do I feel re her involvement - not impressed at all, I can assure you!

    The manner in which she came to be associated with them is a bit involved, and probably better decribed in detail elsewhere but suffice it to say that she was "searching for spritual fulfilment" when the dubs walked in one day. Perhaps she does have deep seated reservations - there is a quarterly gab fest this weekend to which she is not going but a desire to be baptised eventually has been expressed. Enough said on that for the moment - I will discuss this elsewhere.

    Check_your_premises - you are right in that it can be difficult and problematic - I appreciate whatever assistance I can get! In the early stages, I thought that I was fixating on the JW issue and my colleagues at work thought that I had gone over the top - I did as much research as I could manage (know your enemy). Most of what I know I cannot discuss directly with her, but use it to manage a difficult situation.

    I really appreciate your views - they tend to confirm what I feel abut this issue .

    By the way, If my responses are slow, it is due to difficulties in being able to go on line without being sprung - still early Saturday here!

    Regards,

    HAL

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