Rip it apart: A Letter from a First Century Christian

by serendipity 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • serendipity
    serendipity

    This was posted on a pro-JW forum and ended up on H20. . I know some of the bright minds here would have *a word or two* to say. Have fun!

    ***************************************

    I Have Decided to Leave This Organization!--A Letter from a First Century Christian
    Greetings brothers and sisters. I wanted to inform everyone that I have decided to leave the congregation and thus this organization. Below are my reasons why.

    First of all, there is constant flip flopping. At first the apostles believe Jesus was setting up the Kingdom when he was on earth. Then they said it will come before John dies. In my studies of the scriptures I have concluded that it is not coming until the wheat and weeds grow together first. That is just now beginning to happen. The apostles are false prophets as they have totally disregarded what Jesus himself said. If they would quit trying to put forth their own interpretations and rely on Jesus they would not be flip flopping back and forth. The truth is the truth. And if you are not telling the truth you are lying. Why should I stay in an organization that lies and makes demon-inspired false prophecies.

    Then their is the thing about meat. First James and others say abstain from meat sacrificed to idols. Then Paul has the gaul to say, no, it is ok to eat that meat. Which is it, Paul and James? Can we eat the meat or can we not eat the meat. Since Jesus didn't say anything about it why are rules being made by others like Paul and James (oh by the way, Jesus half brother. hmm . I wonder how he got in the position that he's in. Can we say Nepotism?) I do not serve man, only God. When they start making rules and regulation beyond what Jesus said something is wrong and I will not stand by and be a part of such Pharisaic like thinking.

    And speaking of Paul, can you believe what he did about Mark. How unloving. Not wanting Mark to go with him on the missionary tour. A lot of good his missionary tour does. I happen to know that Mark had a good reason for leaving Paul and Barnabus the first time. Barnabus sure thought so too. Paul is ridiculous. I thought Jesus said Love is the identifying mark of the true religion. I do not see such love here in this organization.

    You know what else Paul had the nerve to say. Be obedient to those taking the lead among you and be submissive. I am submissive only to Jesus and Jehovah. I do not need men telling me how to worship God. I have the scriptures. Jesus said to worship in spirit and truth. He did not say worship how the elders or Paul or some self appointed governing body in Jerusalem tells you to worship. They have set themselves up above Jesus as God's channel. Why should we stay among men who want glory for themselves and want you under their thumb. How about be obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul also said, Become imitators of me. Jesus on the other hand said follow after me. Jesus or Paul? Who should we follow? I think I will follow Jesus rather than some old bald headed man who is trying to get glory for himself and usurp Jesus' position as the channel of God.

    And then he says this, "A wife is bound during all the time her husband is alive. But if her husband should fall asleep [in death], she is free to be married to whom she wants, only in [the] Lord. 40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my opinion. I certainly think I also have God's spirit." He gives his opinion and has the nerve to say that he thinks he has God's spirit in what he says. Who is he to say if you will be happier if you don't remarry. Some people happen to like being married. Just because he is single he thinks everyone should be. Is he trying to say that he is the only one serving Jehovah in the right way? I just cannot have respect for a man like this who seeks his own selfish glory rather than God's. How can we be a part of an organization that allows men like this to continue and try to tell us what to do instead of letting what Jesus said come first.

    And did you hear about Peter and his good ole boys did. Before the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class. The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Bar´na·bas was led along with them in their pretense. That is disgusting. That is apostasy. And what happened to him for that. Nothing. A slap on the wrist. Paul confronted him about it and told him he shouldn't be that way. But he remained a big shot in the congregation and organization. How many people do you think he stumbled with his good ole boys joining right along with him. And yet, if you say anything about it you will be chastised and kicked out for 'speaking abusivley against glorious ones.' Unbelievable that God's organization could be like this. I was of the opinion that Barnabus was a good brother until I found out that he did nothing about it but just went along with Peter because he was probably afraid of losing his position. They should all be removed but since they are big shots in the organization nothing is done to them.

    But look what they're trying to do to Diotrephes. John said something to the congregation about Di·ot´re·phes. He said Diotrephes likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from them with respect. Then John said that is why, if he comes, he will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation. Who died and made John the judge? Its just like him though! Anybody who don't believe everything they say they are ready to silence them in the congregation just like John and the apostles wants to silence Diotrephes. How unloving that he says Diotrephes is 'chattering with wicked words.' Such lies and slander. Oh but Peter and Barnabas and the good ole boys can do anything they want and they just get a slap on the wrist. But because Diotrephes doesn't bow down to them whenever they enter the congregation they accuse him of being wicked and want to hush him up and get him out of the congregation. Reminds me of Caesar type mentality. Oh but let someone sleep with their father's wife and they are oh so willing to let him come back into the congregation because he is 'repentent'.

    Even Jude tries to throw his weight around as someone important probably because he is the half brother of Jesus. He tried to drag out the tired old "Korah" analogy, in an attempt to suggest blind, unflinching, unquestioning obedience to the "golden calf," known as 'the way'. He said, "Too bad for them, because they have gone in the path of Cain, and have rushed into the erroneous course of Ba´laam for reward, and have perished in the rebellious talk of Ko´rah! These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, proceeding according to their own desires, and their mouths speak swelling things, while they are admiring personalities for the sake of [their own] benefit."

    Let's get real about this, once and for all, shall we? If anyone today fits the role of ancient Korah, Dathan and Abiram, who REALLY would that be? Does not the so called Governing Body and older men in Jerusalem sit themselves in the seat of Moses and try to speak for all the anointed brothers as if they are the only ones with holy spirit? They want to intimidate and demean and spiritually terrorize us, -- trample upon our rights and our dignity, -- by talk of "Korah-like" influences and/or behavior, ... I tell them right now they've got their finger pointed in the wrong direction. And I will not stand for it because I know the real 'way about the Way' and they are not acting in love the way Jesus said it should be.

    Bottom line is I am not going to let some old men in Jerusalem tell me how to worship Jehovah and how to follow in Jesus footsteps. I have the scriptures. I can read them myself. I have the helper, the holy spirit. They think they have a monopoly on the holy spirit? They are always quoting that Ethipian Eunuch who said he couldn't understand the scriptures unless someone guided him. Of course, they have set themselves up as that guide, not Jesus. They go beyond what Jesus said. Paul even said, However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. He is trying to say we are cursed if we don't listen to what they say is the good news. Well, I have Jesus telling me what is the good news and I will listen to him and his Father, not men who committ apostasy and flip flop back and forth and misinterpret prophecy and do not show love and want all the glory for themselves.

    I choose Jehovah and Jesus over man and so I am leaving this God dishonoring organization who trys to say only they have the truth.

    Much peace and love,

    A 'true' worshiper of Jehovah

    PS--Since I wrote this letter I have learned that Paul was in prison and appealed to Caesar so that he is now going to Rome. Wouldn't it be so much better if he appealed to God? Doesn't he know what Daniel prophecied about Rome being the ferocious wild beast? And now he appeals for help from the wild beast! That explains why not one time has he or any of the other writers of letters to the congregations ever talked about how God will destroy that beast after the small horn grows and tramples God's people. He and thus his organization that he is an apostle for is committing spiritual prostitution by relying on the governments to protect him. It is disgusting! I will not stand by and be a part of such filthy and deceitful hypocrisy. I am outta here.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    He he...

    Let's analyse:

    (1) Implicit unproven assumption: early Christianity was good and it would have been wrong to leave it.

    (2) Half-explicit ill-proven assumption: to an extent the WT resembles early Christianity.

    (3) Implicit conclusion: whoever finds fault with the WT could have found fault with early Christianity and been wrong.

    Of course (2) is grossly overstated. Early Christianity was never a "united organisation with a governing body" etc. But it is not necessarily 100 % wrong. There might have been very good reasons to take issue with early Christianity (or some form of it). Which seriously begs the question (which the author doesn't intend), what if (1) is wrong?

    I can imagine a half-wit USSR apparachik in the 40's saying: "If you don't like Stalin, you might as well criticise Marx." -- "Hey, Marx is no Stalin... but indeed I might."

    Nothing like an apologist to sow doubt...

  • serendipity
    serendipity

    Hi Nark, for reading such a long post & commenting:

  • James Free
    James Free

    Well written letter. How did you know so much about all the bad stuff going on in the first century - Peter being told off by Paul etc.?

    Because it is recorded in the Bible! So, Peter hardly got away with it unscathed - it became public knowledge that he had done wrong. How did you know Paul had an argument about who went on his tour. Because he admited it.

    The apostles were appointed by Christ himself. To prove it, they were able to perform miracles etc. Today the GB is self-appointed, and is unable to prove its position. In fact, even the so-called 'faithful and discrete slave' is not consulted in any way about who 'represents' them - so much for 'being given authority over his belongings'.

    Now ask yourself, how often do the GB admit to errors of judgement today? After the 1975 fiasco, they blamed the rank-and-file for having too many expectations even though they instigated and fed such thoughts, talking about 'the remaining months'. Then, years later, they said, well maybe we were a little hasty BUT that's only because we are so awake to the times we are living in, unlike all the other religions ...

    You will not find humility in the leadership of the Org., only use of the word. Even the term 'servant' has been elevated to a de facto clergy class.

    I thought your letter was interesting, but the situation described in the letter does not parallel today as much as is inferred.

  • James Free
    James Free

    after re-reading it I noticed the letter is from someone else - so my previous words are addressed to the author. Sorry about that.

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Good post, Serendipity.

    Sorry for appearing a bit thick........but what the hell's H2O???

    Cheers

  • shadow
    shadow

    First of all, there is constant flip flopping. At first the apostles believe Jesus was setting up the Kingdom when he was on earth. Then they said it will come before John dies. In my studies of the scriptures I have concluded that it is not coming until the wheat and weeds grow together first. That is just now beginning to happen. The apostles are false prophets as they have totally disregarded what Jesus himself said. If they would quit trying to put forth their own interpretations and rely on Jesus they would not be flip flopping back and forth. The truth is the truth. And if you are not telling the truth you are lying. Why should I stay in an organization that lies and makes demon-inspired false prophecies.

    None of these beliefs were required of others on pain of forced shunning.

    Then their is the thing about meat. First James and others say abstain from meat sacrificed to idols. Then Paul has the gaul to say, no, it is ok to eat that meat. Which is it, Paul and James? Can we eat the meat or can we not eat the meat. Since Jesus didn't say anything about it why are rules being made by others like Paul and James (oh by the way, Jesus half brother. hmm . I wonder how he got in the position that he's in. Can we say Nepotism?) I do not serve man, only God. When they start making rules and regulation beyond what Jesus said something is wrong and I will not stand by and be a part of such Pharisaic like thinking.

    Again, recommendations made without threat of expulsion.

    And speaking of Paul, can you believe what he did about Mark. How unloving. Not wanting Mark to go with him on the missionary tour. A lot of good his missionary tour does. I happen to know that Mark had a good reason for leaving Paul and Barnabus the first time. Barnabus sure thought so too. Paul is ridiculous. I thought Jesus said Love is the identifying mark of the true religion. I do not see such love here in this organization.

    If GB actually admitted mistakes and apologized I would have more respect for them. Also later editions of Acts were not changed to cover up the story.

    You know what else Paul had the nerve to say. Be obedient to those taking the lead among you and be submissive. I am submissive only to Jesus and Jehovah. I do not need men telling me how to worship God. I have the scriptures. Jesus said to worship in spirit and truth. He did not say worship how the elders or Paul or some self appointed governing body in Jerusalem tells you to worship. They have set themselves up above Jesus as God's channel. Why should we stay among men who want glory for themselves and want you under their thumb. How about be obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul also said, Become imitators of me. Jesus on the other hand said follow after me. Jesus or Paul? Who should we follow? I think I will follow Jesus rather than some old bald headed man who is trying to get glory for himself and usurp Jesus' position as the channel of God.

    Paul also said not to follow him if said something not true.

    And then he says this, "A wife is bound during all the time her husband is alive. But if her husband should fall asleep [in death], she is free to be married to whom she wants, only in [the] Lord. 40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my opinion. I certainly think I also have God's spirit." He gives his opinion and has the nerve to say that he thinks he has God's spirit in what he says. Who is he to say if you will be happier if you don't remarry. Some people happen to like being married. Just because he is single he thinks everyone should be. Is he trying to say that he is the only one serving Jehovah in the right way? I just cannot have respect for a man like this who seeks his own selfish glory rather than God's. How can we be a part of an organization that allows men like this to continue and try to tell us what to do instead of letting what Jesus said come first.

    Decision was left to individual. Those who did not follow his recommendation were not villified.
    And did you hear about Peter and his good ole boys did. Before the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class. The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Bar´na·bas was led along with them in their pretense. That is disgusting. That is apostasy. And what happened to him for that. Nothing. A slap on the wrist. Paul confronted him about it and told him he shouldn't be that way. But he remained a big shot in the congregation and organization. How many people do you think he stumbled with his good ole boys joining right along with him. And yet, if you say anything about it you will be chastised and kicked out for 'speaking abusivley against glorious ones.' Unbelievable that God's organization could be like this. I was of the opinion that Barnabus was a good brother until I found out that he did nothing about it but just went along with Peter because he was probably afraid of losing his position. They should all be removed but since they are big shots in the organization nothing is done to them.

    This really points out the obligation that individuals have to speak out against wrong conduct even by those in high places like the GB. Does the WTS encourage this?

    But look what they're trying to do to Diotrephes. John said something to the congregation about Di·ot´re·phes. He said Diotrephes likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from them with respect. Then John said that is why, if he comes, he will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation. Who died and made John the judge? Its just like him though! Anybody who don't believe everything they say they are ready to silence them in the congregation just like John and the apostles wants to silence Diotrephes. How unloving that he says Diotrephes is 'chattering with wicked words.' Such lies and slander. Oh but Peter and Barnabas and the good ole boys can do anything they want and they just get a slap on the wrist. But because Diotrephes doesn't bow down to them whenever they enter the congregation they accuse him of being wicked and want to hush him up and get him out of the congregation. Reminds me of Caesar type mentality. Oh but let someone sleep with their father's wife and they are oh so willing to let him come back into the congregation because he is 'repentent'.

    Even this is done publicly, no star chamber tactics. John was given authority by Jesus personally. Another irony is unintentionally stated concerning the sinner in Corinth. The scriptural record shows the restoration of the man in Corinth ocurred within a few months which condemns modern WT practice.
    Even Jude tries to throw his weight around as someone important probably because he is the half brother of Jesus. He tried to drag out the tired old "Korah" analogy, in an attempt to suggest blind, unflinching, unquestioning obedience to the "golden calf," known as 'the way'. He said, "Too bad for them, because they have gone in the path of Cain, and have rushed into the erroneous course of Ba´laam for reward, and have perished in the rebellious talk of Ko´rah! These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, proceeding according to their own desires, and their mouths speak swelling things, while they are admiring personalities for the sake of [their own] benefit."

    Keep reading Jude and learn about mercy:
    22 Also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; 23
    save [them] by snatching [them] out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while YOU hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh.

    Let's get real about this, once and for all, shall we? If anyone today fits the role of ancient Korah, Dathan and Abiram, who REALLY would that be? Does not the so called Governing Body and older men in Jerusalem sit themselves in the seat of Moses and try to speak for all the anointed brothers as if they are the only ones with holy spirit? They want to intimidate and demean and spiritually terrorize us, -- trample upon our rights and our dignity, -- by talk of "Korah-like" influences and/or behavior, ... I tell them right now they've got their finger pointed in the wrong direction. And I will not stand for it because I know the real 'way about the Way' and they are not acting in love the way Jesus said it should be.

    There was no GB in the first century.
    Bottom line is I am not going to let some old men in Jerusalem tell me how to worship Jehovah and how to follow in Jesus footsteps. I have the scriptures. I can read them myself. I have the helper, the holy spirit. They think they have a monopoly on the holy spirit? They are always quoting that Ethipian Eunuch who said he couldn't understand the scriptures unless someone guided him. Of course, they have set themselves up as that guide, not Jesus. They go beyond what Jesus said. Paul even said, However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. He is trying to say we are cursed if we don't listen to what they say is the good news. Well, I have Jesus telling me what is the good news and I will listen to him and his Father, not men who committ apostasy and flip flop back and forth and misinterpret prophecy and do not show love and want all the glory for themselves.

    There were very few beliefs that were insisted on by the first century congregations. There was much greater emphasis and recognition of individual responsibility.

    I choose Jehovah and Jesus over man and so I am leaving this God dishonoring organization who trys to say only they have the truth.

    That's cool, it doesn't mean I can't talk to you or that you will have to sit in the back for a year if you change your mind.

    Much peace and love,

    A 'true' worshiper of Jehovah


    PS--Since I wrote this letter I have learned that Paul was in prison and appealed to Caesar so that he is now going to Rome. Wouldn't it be so much better if he appealed to God? Doesn't he know what Daniel prophecied about Rome being the ferocious wild beast? And now he appeals for help from the wild beast! That explains why not one time has he or any of the other writers of letters to the congregations ever talked about how God will destroy that beast after the small horn grows and tramples God's people. He and thus his organization that he is an apostle for is committing spiritual prostitution by relying on the governments to protect him. It is disgusting! I will not stand by and be a part of such filthy and deceitful hypocrisy. I am outta here.

    There is a difference between appealing to secular authority and making a voluntary alliance with it and writing letters to glorify Caesar.

  • serendipity
    serendipity

    Thanks for comments JamesFree, Moggy and Shadow.

    Hi Moggy,

    H20 is another forum. From what I hear it used to be a good one, now a lot of weirdos hang out there. OOPs what does that say about me? Here's the URL for you: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&CategoryID=2967

  • dozy
    dozy

    Interesting letter - a lot of food for thought there!

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