COJ responds to "Scholar"

by a Christian 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    On another discussion board ("Channel C") Carl Olof Jonsson - the author of "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" - just responded to a post by "Scholar JW" concerning Scholar's support of the Watchtower's unique interpretation of Jeremiah's "70 years" prophecies.

    Here are COJ's comments to Scholar:

    Neill:

    [You wrote] : The nations or the surrounding nations to Judah mentioned by Jeremiah in ch. 25:9,11 are further described in 12-26 with their repective
    judgements.

    - I agree. But not all of them were neighbours of Judah. Elam and Media, for example, were much farther away, even beyond Babylonia. (verse 25)

    [You wrote] : Their individual periods of servitude to Babylon are not stated by Jeremiah but he addresses them collectively along with Judah in that all would be in servitude to Babylon. There are good reasons to believe that particularly during Nebuchadnezzar's reign beginning from Jehoiakim's 4th year in 625 BCE that all the these nations including Judah came under Babylonian domination until its end in 539 BCE.

    - The period from 625 BCE to 539 BCE makes 86 years of servitude, not 70. It is interesting to see, however, that you date the end of the servitude in 539 BCE, not in 537.

    [You wrote] : Jeremiah's period of seventy years applies to Judah only as proven by 25:2 ...

    - Thus you deliberately ignore what Jeremiah clearly says, namely, that "these nations [those mentioned at Jer. 25:12-26, as you admit] will serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jer. 25:11)

    [You wrote] : I ignore the 'contemporary' cunieform documents on which Neo-Babylonian chronology is based and prefer the testimony of Josephus for the simple and plain reason that those secular documents have nothing to say about Jeremiah's seventy years.

    - You are wrong. I presuppose that you still, like the WTS, count the 70 years from the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar to the 2nd year of Cyrus. The contemporary Neo-Babylonian sources conclusively prove this period was 50 years, not 70. Berossus, who got his figures from the Neo-Babylonian documents, agrees with this, as shown by Josephus' quotation from Berossus at Against Apion, I, §§145-153. And Josephus, too, at §154, goes on to say he agrees with this, thus rejecting his earlier, conflicting statements about the 70-year period. At Against Apion I, §§131-132, for example, he counts the 70 years from the last (21st) year of Nabopolassar, in which year he erroneously dates the burning of Jerusalem's temple!

    - As you deliberately choose to ignore both what Jeremiah and the primary cuneiform historical sources say in preference of the conflicting statements in a much later, partially distorted secondary source, I see no reason to continue discussing this subject with you. You are evidently not interested in facts that go against your cherished views.

    Carl

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    brilliant

  • skyman
    skyman

    I have read for weeks and weeks about this subject and know why Ray Franz had such a hard time with it. Because not a shred of evidence supports the BORG"S claim

  • startingover
    startingover

    How can one go about finding the Channel C discussion board?

  • a Christian
    a Christian


    Starting Over,

    You asked about Channel C. Here's a link: http://www.channelc.org/

    However, you are not missing much. COJ posts there occasionally. So do Rud Pierson (AKA "Wolfgang Herbst") and Jim Penton, some other well known ex-JW authors. But the board is open only to those whom its owner, Ros, knows personally.

    Ros is very picky about who she will allow to post on "her" board. I posted there for quite a while but was banned when she didn't like something I wrote. She lets very few people post there to begin with. And she then ends up banning most of them for reasons only she knows. Because of this woman's mean streak and totally controling personality Channel C has turned into a ghost town inhabited only by Ros and a few well known ex-JWs. Ros has said that she likes it that way and she says she plans to keep it that way. She says she is too busy to moderate a high trafic board. That's her excuse anyway.

    "Scholar" only got his questions to COJ posted there by sending them to Ros first for her approval. Since COJ has now told Scholar that he has no further interest in debating his silliness, I doubt Ros will post anymore of Scholar's questions or comments on her board.

  • Outaservice
    Outaservice

    HI 'a-Christian'. How are things going? Haven't heard from you for awhile.

    Outaservice

  • scholar
    scholar

    a Christian

    You too seem very selective in what you post on this board because you only posted Jonsson's response to one of two questions, you did not post my two questions and Jonsson's earlt reponse. I will be replying to CoJ's answer on this forum and on Channel C.

    scholar JW

  • a Christian
  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Why is 'Brother' Neil in direct correspondence with an 'apostate' who he as personally vilified. Do his elders know of this correspondence?

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    Hi Dan.

    You wrote: How are things going? Haven't heard from you for awhile.

    Yeah, it has been a couple years, hasn't it? I spend very little time on line these days. Making a living keeps me pretty busy. Too busy, unfortunately. Not much has changed in my life since I talked to you last. I hear you got out of the furniture business. (I heard a radio ad to that effect anyway.) Are you now retired? Maybe one of these years when I retire I'll find the time to finish one of the writing projects I've started.

    I was very sorry to hear about your friend Lark passing away. I hope your health is good.

    I also hope you don't think I was too tough on your friend Ros. As I said, for some reason which I still can't understand she again banned me from her site. (She did so once before for some other nutty reason. And then was pretty nasty to me in some personal E Mails. Enough so that her behavior completely turned me off to the idea of attending any of her "Bible conferences.") This was after she allowed me and a few others back to her board after she did a house cleaning of "Catholic trouble makers" recently. About the same time she got rid of me again she also treated Jim Whitney ("Amazing") so badly that he told me that he would never post on her board again. I'd say more but I guess I've said too much publicly already. Just blowing off some steam.

    I hope you and the Mrs. have a wonderful Christmas.

    Mike

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