Email from a JW wannabe

by Quotes 19 Replies latest jw experiences

Quotes

Hi Gang, the following email thread isn't extremely funny, but it does give some interesting insight into the mind of a JW-wannabe.
I received the following:
Dear quotes,
The topic of rape came up in a family discussion. In my effort to find bible support, I found the bible the passage and I would now like to read the two pages you have on your web site. Unfortunately I have a filtered web server that blocks out objectionable material. Although I find this service protects me and my family sometimes it does to good of a job. For example, I can't go to any of your pages that have the words, sex, rape, etc. The rest are fine.
I was wondering if you could copy the text and email me back the info.
Yours truly
Seeking the truth and wishing to be baptized some day.
Andy
I could not quite tell exactly where this guy "was coming from", but here is response:
Dear Andrew [last name removed] Thanks for writing to us. We have attached two HTML files which contain the information you requested. We trust this will help you and your family. See you online!
Note, when I sent the above email, I included the folling HTML files:
Rape Is Fornication
Rape Is NOT fornication
A few days later, I received this from "Andy":
Dear Quotes,
Thank you for sending me the info regarding rape. your site has helped me greatly.
I read the following resolution and found it to be incredibly powerful.
*** The Resolution ***
WE JEHOVAH'S witnesses, met together in [City, State, Country], in one of the "Everlasting Good News" assemblies being held in a continuous chain around the whole world this year of 1963, do this day declare and resolve as follows:
_______________________________________________________
As I mentioned before I'm not baptized and I currently do not fellowship with other witnesses. I guess you could call me a secret witness. I'm afraid to come out for fear of confrontation with my wife who I love. Trust me, we have had our disagreements over the years.
Am I correct in saying that I desired more food then what I was getting from the Official site of JWs? I guess the more I read the more questions I have. I'm hoping through knowledge I can arm myself with enough truth to not only come- out so to speak, but also to defend my beliefs against family and friends. I've believed the truth for almost 20 years now but I'm terrified to take that last step. I would like to pray that my wife would have a change of heart but yet I do not feel worthy of payer. I would like to tell my children the wonderful news that I've learned.
Thank you again for the information.
Andy
Here is my response to Andy:
Glad we could help, Andrew. Yes, the resolution is very interesting. Paragraph 5 in particular identifies the United Nations as being a human creation standing against God's sovereignty . Which makes it all the more confusing as to why the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society formerly allied itself with the UN by actively pursuing and achieving status as a "NGO". Rather unusual, since during that same period (the 1990s) Jehovah's Witnesses were not allowed to even be police officers, or seek out employment contracts with churches. And yet the Watchtower Society becomes a UN NGO. A very interesting situation, indeed. Tell me, when did you first become interested in JWs? What was your religious background before that?
And here is the "head in the sand" response from Andy:
Wow,
You sure fooled me! Although I still feel your site will be valuable. As you said yourself, as a "study" for true witnesses. The question is, how much of your information has been changed. It's funny how your site was designed to lure people like myself. And once I got there it actually strengthened my belief in the message that the Witnesses are Gods true organization. Strange how things work out sometimes.
I was Catholic. I became brainwashed with the truth about 18 years ago.
Andy
Hurt and confused by Andy's accusations, I sent him this reply:
Andrew, I am sorry you feel I "fooled" you. I agree, our site is a study for both Witnesses and non-Witnesses alike. The Watchtower Society encourages people to study their publications, and our sight is sort of a scrap-book of clippings from Society publications. Nothing more, nothing less. No opinions (at least, none of my opinion, only the Society's). Funny how *if* my site openly criticized (by using my own words and editorial and drawing conclusions for the reader) it would be recognized as "opposing" and labelled as "entirely apostate lies", but when I take great pains to only provide direct, verified (and verifiable -- by you) quotes from the Watchtower Society, and let people draw their own conclusions, you feel it is a "lure". It seems a very unfair characterization. I try to be fair and reasonable, and am labelled a "lure". I strongly disagree with your label. Initially, the site was created because a dear friend was adamant in his claim that the Society *NEVER* claimed to be God's "channel" and God's "prophet". So I put together all the times when they said those exact things. The site grew from there. As to "how much has been changed" -- I encourage your scepticism! I have nothing to hide and know that *ALL* of the quotes are accurate and correct. I warmly challenge you to verify the accuracy of those quotes. You and I might disagree regarding the significance of the quotes, but you will find that the quotes themselves are accurate. If you find *ANYTHING* which is incorrect, email me at once so I can make the correction. (I have only had two minor typos pointed out to me in over 4 years). I am pleased that your faith has been strengthened. I know that has happened to many who have read the quotes at my site. I also know that many have been shocked upon learning about the embarrassing past of the Watchtower Society's publications, and have been moved to distinguish between loyalty and faithfulness to Jehovah God, and loyalty to a human organization. Why do you say you were "brainwashed" by the truth 18 years ago? Can I assume you are being facetious? Please enjoy my website. No matter what, you will find it interesting Sincerely, [email protected]
That's all folks, no reponse to this last one, and I don't expect one. The attitude seems to be "don't confuse me with the facts".
Edited by - Quotes on 24 January 2003 18:58:40
Icansaylucky

Very interesting exchange. Sounds like his wife is the intelligent one in that family.
Scully

Quotes:
The comments you receive from your website and the replies you provide never cease to entertain me.
I'm just wondering how Andy could possibly be a study for 20 years and not want to commit??? How does he get away with that??? I didn't think the JW love-bombing phase could last more than 6 months....
Love, Scully
Beans

I think that there is a part of the brain that isn't working with some of these people!
Beans
Sparks

.....love the phrase about love bombing ( never heard it before), the witnesses remind me of the bloody Mafia...They kiss you tenderly just before they kill you....The witnesses stretch it out a little longer thats all..!!!Thanks Quotes, brilliant post as always.....Godddd....I wish I was as kool and patient as you guy`s.....
SYN

A 20 year long Bible Study? Good gHod! That's gotta be some kind of a recond
You won't get a reply to your last email, simply because few Dubs can face the real TRUTH.
Quotes
Will wonders never cease: I received a reply from "Andy". Here it is:
[Quotes],
Maybe the word lure was a bit strong. I assumed that you were a witness and your site was for the purpose of study. It sounds like someone close to you is a witness and the purpose of your site is to display what you feel are statements made by the organization that suport your viewpoint that they are not Gods true organization.
Maybe your releationship changed with this person becauese of thier involvent with JWs. Has this person become a bad person as result of thier association? Is she or he a good mother or father. Does he treat people with respect, is he kind, loving, caring, slow to anger? It would be wrong to reject this person because of there association when thay have actually become a better human being.
It seems to me that if God had to chose an organition to manage the earth why not the witnesses. Yes, I was broght up catholic, and yes I felt I was decieved. I was never taught the histery of that organization. I did ask questions about topics that were confusing and did not make sense and I never got an answer that made sence. I was never told about Christs kingdom in relationship to a new earth. The book of revelation was never really discussed.
You could say JWs have an answer for everything this proves they are a cult. But would it not make sense that god would would want us to understand his message? I use the words "makes sense" Becuse the truth should make sense. Religion never made sense to me before and now it does. There has to be something to thier message. A friend of mine once said " You know how when someone is telling the truth sometimes you just know it ?" He was is not a witness. My freind had an elderly couple witnessing to him on on a couple of weekends untill his wife put a stop to it. This friend is not me, by the way.
Maybe you find there message extreme and and feel insulted that if you do not join there organiztion you could lose your life. You may find it offensive that your friends and family could also lose thier chance at salvation.
I'm not sure what your beliefs are. I only have an idea based on the few things you have told me. Yes I was being facisius about being brainwashed. But I think I have been, with the truth.
Andy
I can't believe he is actually conversing with me! I hope to make him think, but not tell him how to think. Here is my reply to Andy:
Dear Andy, Thanks for replying to me. I felt for sure I had somehow offended you, and that was not my intent. To address some of the points of your most recent letter:
The purpose of my site, as explained in the online FAQ (http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/admin/faq.htm) is " This site was created to collect interesting or significant quotes from the publications of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society , and to make them available to any interested person, via the world wide web. Prior to the creation of this site, there appeared to be few online references which included this material. In short, Watchtower quotes is our raison d'etre. Editorial opinion is not included, and conclusions are not drawn for the reader. Just Watchtower Society quotes, nothing else. " Since my viewpoint is not included at my sight, I am at a loss as to why you feel that you know what my viewpoint is. However, I as you: do you feel that, upon reading the Watchtower quotes at my sight, that "they are not God's true organization?" Where did you get that idea from?
I have had (past tense) and have (present tense) relationships with many JWs. My opinion is that people tend to be "good" or "bad" as people. Their religious affiliation (or lack thereof) is not the same as the person themselves -- even for Jehovah's Witnesses. To give you one example: Mother Theresa was a giving, selfless person, who happened to be Catholic, and work within (and often outside of) that organization. If she had not been Catholic, she would still have been a giving, selfless person, albeit a person affiliated with some other group or organization. Having said that, I have seen "good" people forced to do "bad" things as a result of the JW religion: like a father shunning his own son, treating him like he is an "unperson". This father didn't want to do this, but felt he had to because those were the rules --rules made by a group of old men in Brooklyn, who felt somehow that they have a unique ability to understand the bible, an ability that no one else has. I suspect his (this JW father's) conscience tells him that what he is doing is wrong, that this isn't a normal, loving way to treat your own son, but he follows the rules rather than following his bible-trained conscience and his normal love of family, and treat his son like a member of the family. I also personally know of one Elder who not only cheated the government (by illegally collecting unemployment insurance he was not entitled to) but encouraged his employee (another JW, in sales, who was having a dry spell of not selling very much) to do the same. So in that case, I would say, "NO", association with JWs did not help this person. You may be thinking "that is only one example, it proves nothing" -- and you are correct. But you asked, and I answered.
Of course it would be wrong to reject a person because of their association -- I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, your thought here goes completely against JW teachings. At times, JWs are warned to be careful of how they associate with even within the congregation -- in addition to the constant warnings against associating with those outside the congregation. And, worst of all possible associations: persons who used to be in the congregation but are not anymore, regardless of the reason why they are outside. I challenge you to boldly make your opinion "it would be wrong to reject a person because of their association" to you JW friends and/or study conductor. You may be in for a surprise.
"Why not the Witnesses?" You will forgive me, but that is hardly a compelling argument. Why not the Seventh Day Adventists? At least they remember that Saturday is the Sabbath, and they keep it holy (JWs don't do that). At least they don't excite themselves by refusing to dance (JWs will dance at weddings). At least they don't improperly stimulate their body by refusing to be defiled with caffeine and alcohol (JWs drink coffee and alcohol). OK, don't like the SDA? How about Mormons? At least they have restored true worship and embraced the testimony of Jesus Christ in North America (JWs reject this later testimony as the "works of men" -- only Watchtower publications are acceptable modern day works to be studied and revered). OK, don't like the Mormons? Why not Lutheranism? At least they can trace themselves back to the "true church" as founded upon Peter & the apostles (like the Catholics) but they recognized apostasy in the RC church in the 15th century and separated themselves from it. Not a Protestant fan? Then why not Islam? At least they recognize that Jesus and Abraham were prophets, but they are privileged to have a newer prophecy, by Mohammed -- the "helper" foretold by Jesus in scripture. Islam must be more up-to-date than any religion which doesn't include the writings of Mohammed the prophet (JWs reject the Qoran).
Please note: I am not allied with any of the religions I mentioned in the preceding. However, the point I am trying to make is this: ultimately, your argument works with any religion. It works like this: "We are the True Religion because only we believe/teach/do {insert most import belief of this religion here} -- and since that is clearly the most important thing to believe/teach/do, then clearly we are the True Religion.
I am sorry that your questions weren't answered when you were a young Catholic, but I am not entirely surprised. However, it is interesting to me that your thoughts here exactly mirror the thoughts I have heard expressed countless times before from people who were raised JWs: "I was never taught the history of the Organization...I never got answers that made sense". Perhaps hiding embarrassing historical details, and giving non-sensical answers is yet another thing that the JWs have in common with the Catholic Church? (for a more complete list of similarities, see http://www.bible.ca/cath-JW-converting.htm).
As for discussing the book of Revelation -- perhaps you are referring to the bright red "Revelation" book? Is that really a discussion? I agree, it deals with the book of Revelation, but when you are told exactly what you must believe, exactly what each and every symbol stands for, without question or doubt, without wriggle room, just "*BAM*, the seven trumpets mean seven assemblies held by JWs in the 1920s...." that is not a discussion. If you are truly interested in discussion I can help you find some internet resources (Usenet Newsgroups like christnet.bible.revelation, for example) where you can actually discuss, rather than simply be told what a group of old men in Brooklyn believe, and told that you must believe the same or else you can't continue to be a JW and will be destroyed by Jehovah God real soon now.
No, I wouldn't say that because JWs have an answer to everything that proves they are a cult. First of all, I never said they are a cult, at least not on my webpage, and not in any correspondence with you. As to the question of whether or not a group -- any group -- is or is not a cult, that is a much deeper question, and it would be foolish to think that any one test proves -- or disproves -- existence of a cult. There is no one single test for which one can conclude "AHA! THERE IT IS, THEY ARE A CULT BECAUSE {insert single test here}." No, it is not that simple. Think of it more like this: compare cultism to individual sanity. Some people are definitely insane. Some people are entirely rational and sane. Most of us fall somewhere in between. Similarly, after looking at a large number of factors, some groups are very, totally cultish. Some are definitely not. Most groups fall somewhere between the two extremes. Then it comes down to "is a group closer to one extreme, or the other? Just how cultish are they?" What I have said here is a very simplistic overview of a very involved topic. I warmly recommend an excellent book on this topic: "Combating Cult Mind Control" by Steve Hassan (see http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/books/combatting.html, but please note that although that link is using a review of this book which I wrote, I am not in any way affiliated with that website. Rather, I wrote the review for Amazon.com, and gospelcom.net later asked my permission to use it). Also I would like to add that the two or three short paragraphs on this topic given in the Watchtower's "Reasoning from the Scriptures" book is hardly a comprehensive treatment. In fact, I feel that their brief response only reveals the fundamental lack of understanding by the anonymous writer of the basic markers of a cult. Not that they don't have the right to defend themselves, because they certainly do; I am simply saying that their response on this important topic is both overly brief and does not properly address the issue.
Your next point involves "making sense" and "knowing when someone is telling you the truth". Yes, one's spirituality should "make sense". I have met a number of people who once felt that Watchtower beliefs made sense, but upon deeper probing and personal study, they came to feel that they had been taught using some of the basic fallacies of logic (see http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ and http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm for an introduction to logic, reasoning, and logical fallacies). I am glad that you feel the Watchtower teachings "make sense". But I can tell you that many who once felt that way no longer feel that way at all. NOTE: I am not in any way questioning or doubting the sincerity of the JWs you might know personally. I entirely expect that they sincerely believe what they are teaching you is Truth. However consider: at one time, people -- respected, intelligent, educated people -- sincerely believed that the Earth was at the center of the solar system, and even at the centre of the universe. Their sincerity did not make that belief accurate -- although there would be no hint of lack of honesty in their voice if we could travel back in time three hundred years or more and have those men teach us about their "Earth centered cosmology". Indeed, Sun-centered or "heliocentric" cosmology was seen as a blasphemy, and they meant that sincerely too. But they were wrong, their sincerity notwithstanding.
Ah yes, "having your brain washed clean with the truth = brainwashed"! I have heard this before. So although you were being facetious, you do actually believe it. Yes, at a superficial level, that statement sounds nice (images of freshly bleached laundry drying outdoors on a warm spring day come to mind). However, having read about cults as much as I have, I personally only see the "conventional" definition of "brainwashing" and abhor any attempt to use the word in a positive, beneficial context like you have attempted here. But that's just my opinion.
Tell me, Andy, have you ever spoken to former Jehovah's Witnesses? I mean, think about it, if everything you are telling me about JWs is correct, why would *ANYONE* give that up? If what you are telling me is true, it would be like someone leaving a good seat in a life-boat, cold but safe on the North Atlantic, and returning to the Titanic when she was already listing 15 degrees to starboard. Why would a sane person do that? Have you ever wondered, or bothered to find out, in all your 20 years of studying with JWs? And why, if you believe it their teachings so truly, have you not committed to that organization formerly, after 20 years of studying? Is it possible that something inside you is stopping you, trying to tell you something? Also, you haven't addressed something from my earlier letter: What do *YOU* think about the fact that the Watchtower Society applied for and was granted status as a UN NGO, affiliating itself with an organization it had already said was standing against God's sovereignty and was a tool or Satan? Many people would feel that this fact is as hypocritical as finding out the Catholic Church was affiliated with an abortion clinic. But I am interested to know what *YOU* think. Also, I don't know what part of the world you are in, but if you can get access to the CBC's (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) channel, watch the show "The Fifth Estate" Wednesday night (January 29) at 9:00pm. The entire hour will be about Jehovah's Witnesses. A pleasure conversing with you! I hope to hear from you again! Sincerely, ~[Quotes] [email protected]
http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
I was tempted to give Andy the URL to this board, but with the recent "Trauma Hound" lashing/lashback, I think this might not be the appropriate time.
Double Edge

Quotes:
I've never been a dub, but I find this entire post fascinating. Thanks for sharing. (great ammunition for me with my JW friend).
Quotes
This guy is definately not a JW. If he was, he would have run off long ago. Here is the latest installment:
[Quotes],
You have definitely given me a lot to think about. You say that the site was created to make these quotes available for interested people. does this mean you have similar sites available with quotes from the other religions you mentioned. It seems that for some reason the JWs may have affected you differently, there is no question that there is a tone of opposition in your response. I get the feeling that you do not believe the JWs are not Gods true organization from your responses, and also from the fact that you have put so much time and effort into your site. You must have a reason. Maybe your just fascinated with religion in general and you study many religions.
Yes you are correct in saying that Mother Theresa was a giving, selfless person. So is my mother. Both people are Catholic and fellowship with other Catholics. The question is does God approve of association with the Catholic organization which its members have caused so much damage over the centuries. And I am not talking about being a member of the UN library. BTW joining a library to find out information about that organization, I do not see a problem with it.
Please tell me some of the "terrible" things the witnesses have done over the years. If they have done terrible things are they still members? And Im not talking about disfellowshipping which seems to be the biggest problem next to the blood issue people have.
As far as the father shunning his son, what did the son do? He must have been disfellowhipped for some reason. Yes, the hardest thing to do is discipline your own children. Its easier not to. Yes Witnesses make mistakes cheating on their unemployment is one of them, and if the elders found out Im sure if they would be reprimanded. See that is the difference, as a Catholic there were no real consequences for your actions, no being disfelloshipped, just keep on sinning and will keep on forgiving. Now look whats happening with there "old men". Im lucky I wasnt molested, or maybe I was you know how kids suppress their memories. Nobody has to tell me that the Catholic organization is not part of Gods plan. My heart tells me so, And the truth is self evident by there actions. Please! you must agree with me on this one. I wish my whole family would leave that organization.
Maybe I should state this another way. It would be wrong to reject a person because of their association if they have proven that they live their lives in a godly manner the way "Jesus" truly intended us to live. If we are not living our lives properly then maybe we deserve to be rejected by those that are.
Its only fair that you tell me what you believe. You said you are not affiliated with any the religions mentioned. This is import here, I need to know what you believe and who you are affiliated with. Tell what do believe happens when you die? do we go to heaven, to hell? Do you believe in the resurrection of the dead. Is their anything that the JWs have proclaimed that other religions do not that you believe in.
As for the history of the JWs I with continue to read and learn. It sounds like some of their members have made mistakes over the years and with the help of your site I will learn much. They seem to have corrected mistakes also. Although I have not found anything earthshaking that would cause me to not believe their message.
No, Im not talking about a specific red book. I can not comment on trumpets and assemblies. Do they still believe this?
I dont have to go far to fin ex JWs, the Internet is filled with pages. Although when I read, most accusations against them seem trivial. Another words, there is tremendous hate for no real reason. And yes why would someone give up a good seat unless they were persuaded to do so by others who already jumped ship. Maybe they were convinced by the others that the water was warm once they got used to it. It is at first, but then your body eventually freezes to death. Maybe this is a good illustration of false religions.
Ill lay off the brainwashed thing for now.
Persecution has kept me. Fear of losing my family from making that step. You cant say that about any of the religions you mentioned. I think if I wanted I could join any with out a problem. But my heart keeps telling me to joing this one.
Andy
And here is my response:
Dear Andy, A (hopefully) quick response: No, I don't have any other quotes websites for other religions. Although I'm sure I could, circumstances in my life and involving those close to me related directly to JWs. If the religion in question were, say, Mormons, I would have dealt with that religion. Circumstances put me in this position. I leave it to others, who are more familiar with those other religions, to deal with those other religions. In other words, I have, unintentionally, become a "specialist" on aspects of JW religion. I would be foolish of me to attempt to become a "specialist" on other religions -- I can't do it all! ;) As I understand the scriptures, God judges the heart condition of the individual, whether it's Mother Theresa or your brother. However it is interesting that you would condemn Catholics for their "much damage over the centuries" -- do you apply the same reasoning to the JWs????? "Not talking about being a member of the UN library". Please, PLEASE Andy, do your homework. I realize that is the Watchtower's excuse for their action. "It was just a library card, what's the big deal?" The facts are simple: The were a UN NGO. Say it with me now, N--G--O. That does not happen by accident. That happens only by having the senior officers of the Watchtower Corporation sign the application papers, and provide proof to the UN that their international aid work qualifies as NGO-status worthy. But let me take your "library card" excuse as valid and correct (even though there is ample evidence that the library card excuse is weak and demonstrably incorrect) --- I ask you this: IF THE DEVIL HAD A LIBRARY, WHY WOULD "GOD'S ORGANIZATION" WANT A LIBRARY CARD????? Read more about the facts of this here: http://www.geocities.com/plowbitch69/ A quick list of "terrible" things done by the Watchtower religion (note, this is by no means complete & exhaustive):
False Prophecy (repeatedly). This is thoroughly condemned in scripture as "presumptuousness" and punishable by death
allowing members to be killed by rioters in Malawi & Mozambique "to maintain Christian neutrality" while at the same time formally allowing Mexican JWs to bribe officials in order to obtain "cartilla" which (fraudulently) indicate that Mexican military service has been completed. The "cartilla" was very similar to the "Government Party Card" the African JWs were dieing over. So I guess I would call this "unnessesary slaughter members whose lives are not considered as valuable as other members lives"
Wasted lives: telling members in the 1920s, 30s, 40s to not get married and not have kids and not plan for retirement because The End is coming Real Soon Now. Many died penniless and lonely at very old ages, without the benefit of family, because the WT told them not to have a family.
Wasted quality of life, unnecessarily: Saying that organ transplants were a violation of God's law and cannibalism, and therefore a disfellowshipping offence; and later saying "whoops, our mistake, transplants are OK". There are documented cases of JWs permanently losing their sight because they dutifully rejected cornea transplants.
Death of its members: incorrectly interpreting a dietary restriction as being applicable to modern medicine -- with deadly results. Ultimately they make a *SYMBOL* of life more important than the *LIFE* which is symbolized.
Putting the Watchtower Corporation ahead of doing the right thing (that is why there are thousands of abuse victims who were silenced, and thousands of molesters who were never investigated by the police -- because "we didn't have two witnesses to the sin so as far as we're concerned there is no proof and having the police investigate will bring reproach upon Jehovah's Name"... which brings us to...
putting the Watchtower on an equivalent level with God Almighty. That is hubris of the highest order.
Ultimately, I think much of the above is the result of the Governing Body actually believing that the are "God's Channel" and "God's Prophet" when in fact they know less about religion, spirituality, and human compassion and psychology, than the average High School teacher. The result is the sorry history preserved at my website.
I never said the son was disfellowshipped, he simply did not want be a member of the religion any more. Even though the WT's website claims "those that simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned" the facts are quite different. There is no simple, friendly exit. If you leave, you automatically become the enemy. It is very interesting that even your thought process was "what did the son do?" implying that he had sinned and was worthy of shunning by his own father. BTW, it seems to me the Catholic church does have "excommunication". But I understand it is reserved for only the worst, most vile sinner. Sinners need help, not a spiritual death penalty. But I am certainly not here to defend the Catholic church. What is happening with the Catholic's old men? If you are talking about the terrible crime and sin of child molestation, you will be interested to watch the CBC program "Fifth Estate" tonight (Wednesday at 9pm). It seem the Catholic church is not the only religion that plays the "cover it up internally, play a shell game, and don't report to the authorities" game. (See http://www.canada.com/halifax/dailynews/story.asp?id=814CBFD5-E790-446D-BD6D-B405614A4944 for a sneak peek). You said " Nobody has to tell me that the Catholic organization is not part of Gods plan. My heart tells me so, And the truth is self evident by there actions. Please! you must agree with me on this one. " I do agree with you on this. But perhaps you can agree with me on a similar thought: " Nobody has to tell me that the Watchtower organization is not part of Gods plan. My heart tells me so, And the truth is self evident by there actions. Please! you must agree with me on this one. " Your defence of " If we are not living our lives properly then maybe we deserve to be rejected by those that are " again reveals that you believe that all who leave JWs are sinners. Of course, that is how the WT universally describes all former members, regardless of the reason why they left, regardless of whether they left of their own accord, or the left because of a sin -- a major, or a "minor" sin, or even an action that is no longer considered a sin. You see, there was group of early "Bible Students" (Russellites, JWs before they were called JWs) that believed that they should not got to war during WW One. But Russell and the WT felt that a Christian should support their country and help defend them. So the pacifists left the Organization. They became known as the "Stand Fasters". Now think about that: when you assume that those that have left are sinners, you are making a broad generalization that does not apply in many cases. After the WT changed the policy and became pacifist, were the "Stand Fasters" welcomed back with open arms? No, of course not, because they were now "gross immoral sinners that had left the protection of Jehovah's Organization because they could not maintain his holy principles". Why do you feel it is so important to tell you what I believe? What does that have to do with our present discussion (the JWs & Watchtower Society)??? Absolutely nothing. I do recognize that "red herring" question, though. (You did brush up on Logical Fallacies with those links I sent in my last email, didn't you?). Regardless of my answer, you attention will quickly shift to either pointing out errors in my beliefs, or pointing out how my beliefs are similar to JWs, or otherwise analysing my beliefs. Again, my beliefs have no place in a discussion about the Watchtower Society. That is why I have not included any of my beliefs in my webpage -- only their own quotes. " It sounds like some of their members have made mistakes over the years " Um, no, although that is clearly the "spin" the WT puts on it. "Some of our *MEMBERS* erroneously believed..." In fact, *ALL* of the members believed, because they were all told exactly what/how to believe by the WT Society & the Governing Body. The errors were made at the very top, and the blame belongs there, not with the "members". Furthermore, these "errors" were called "Jehovah's Spiritual Food". The long history of errors and changes gives ample proof that calling the information from the WT "God's food at the proper time" does a great disservice to God. I expect this type of egregious presumptuousness must make God very angry. I can almost imagine God, with a large flowing white beard, saying "I can't believe they tell people I said that Garbage. Boy are they gonna get it..." I don't think I properly explained my Titanic analogy, but that is my fault. I was referring to people getting out of a life-boat and back onto the Titanic, not into the water. But let me put it this way: maybe this isn't the Titanic, and maybe we're not at sea, and maybe the ship isn't sinking. I have a much better analogy, but it is lengthy and I'm tired -- remind me and I'll include it in the next email. It involves a house, a fire, and a warning. " Fear of losing my family from making that step. You cant say that about any of the religions you mentioned. " Actually, if you study those religions (and I don't mean just read what the WT has to say about those religions) you will find that many of them suffer from the same "persecution complex" that JWs have. "The world hates us, they don't understand us, they want to destroy us." It is not unique to JWs, although they seem to have it to a higher degree than many (but not all) others. It is common to cults. BTW, are you planning to read "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Hassan? I am wondering what other religions you have investigated over the last 20 years (I mean besides Catholic). Best Regards, ~[Quotes] [email protected]
http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
I'll keep this thread posted with any updates.
SYN

Good work Quotes! Let's see him refute your arguments NOW

Email from a JW wannabe

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