DF'ing: The "Right Kind" Of Repentance.

by Englishman 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    I've heard of judicial committees DF'ing people because their repentance, although genuine, was of the wrong kind.

    For years now, elders have been told to make absolutely sure that a persons abject repentance, which might include copious weeping and even hysteria, is to be of no avail if:

    They suspect that the accused's being sorry is only the fact that they are feeling sorry for themselves.

    They suspect that the accused is showing sorrow only for the fact that they have been found out.

    Anyone else come across this?

    Englishman.

  • caspian
    caspian

    The following article was printed on this subject

    ***

    w95 1/1 pp. 27-31 Determining Weakness, Wickedness, and Repentance ***

    Determining

    Weakness, Wickedness, and Repentance

    SIN is something that Christians hate?a falling short of Jehovah?s righteous standards. (Hebrews 1:9) Unhappily, all of us sin from time to time. All of us struggle with inherent weakness and imperfection. In most cases, though, if we confess our sins to Jehovah and earnestly try not to repeat them, we can approach him with a clean conscience. (Romans 7:21-24; 1 John 1:8, 9; 2:1, 2) We thank Jehovah that, on the basis of the ransom sacrifice, he accepts our sacred service despite our weaknesses.

    If someone falls into serious sin because of fleshly weakness, he urgently needs shepherding in harmony with the procedure outlined at James 5:14-16: "Is there anyone [spiritually] sick among you? Let him call the older men of the congregation to him . . . If he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him. Therefore openly confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may get healed."

    Hence, when a dedicated Christian commits gross sin, something more than personal confession to Jehovah is needed. The elders must take certain steps, since the cleanness or the peace of the congregation is threatened. (Matthew 18:15-17; 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 6:9, 10) Elders may have to determine: Is the individual repentant? What led up to the sin? Was it the result of an isolated moment of weakness? Was it a practice of sin? Such determination is not always simple or clear-cut and demands considerable discernment.

    What, though, if the sin is because of pursuing a course of wrongdoing and wicked conduct? Then, the elders? responsibility is clear. When directing the handling of a serious matter in the Corinthian congregation, the apostle Paul said: "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Corinthians 5:13) Wicked people have no place in the Christian congregation.

    Weighing

    Weakness, Wickedness, and Repentance

    How can elders know when someone is repentant? This is not a simple question. Think, for example, of King David. He committed adultery and then, in effect, murder. Yet, Jehovah allowed him to keep living. (2 Samuel 11:2-24; 12:1-14) Then think of Ananias and Sapphira. They lyingly tried to deceive the apostles, hypocritically pretending to be more generous than they really were. Serious? Yes. As bad as murder and adultery? Hardly! Yet, Ananias and Sapphira paid with their lives.?Acts 5:1-11.

    Why the different judgments? David fell into serious sin because of fleshly weakness. When confronted with what he had done, he repented, and Jehovah forgave him?although he was severely disciplined with regard to problems in his household. Ananias and Sapphira sinned in that they hypocritically lied, trying to deceive the Christian congregation and thus ?play false to the holy spirit and to God.? That turned out to be evidence of a wicked heart. Hence, they were judged more severely.

    In both cases Jehovah made the judgment, and his judgment was correct because he can examine hearts. (Proverbs 17:3) Human elders cannot do that. So how can elders discern whether a serious sin is evidence of weakness more than of wickedness?

    In fact, all sin is wicked, but not all sinners are wicked. Similar sins may be evidence of weakness in one person and wickedness in another. Indeed, sinning usually involves a measure of both weakness and wickedness on the part of the sinner. One determining factor is how the sinner views what he has done and what he intends to do about it. Does he show a repentant spirit? Elders need discernment to perceive this. How can they get that discernment? The apostle Paul promised Timothy: "Give constant thought to what I am saying; the Lord will really give you discernment in all things." (2 Timothy 2:7) If elders humbly give "constant thought" to the inspired words of Paul and the other Bible writers, they will get the discernment needed to view properly those who sin in the congregation. Then, their decisions will reflect Jehovah?s thinking, not their own.?Proverbs 11:2; Matthew 18:18.

    How is this done? One way is to examine how the Bible describes wicked people and see whether the description applies to the individual being dealt with.

    Taking

    Responsibility and Repenting

    The first humans who chose a course of wickedness were Adam and Eve. Despite being perfect and having full knowledge of Jehovah?s law, they rebelled against divine sovereignty. When Jehovah confronted them with what they had done, their reactions were worthy of note?Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the serpent! (Genesis 3:12, 13) Compare this with the deep humility of David. When faced with his grave sins, he accepted responsibility and begged for forgiveness, saying: "I have sinned against Jehovah."?2 Samuel 12:13; Psalm 51:4, 9, 10.

    Elders do well to consider these two examples when handling cases of serious sin, especially on the part of an adult. Does the sinner?like David when he was convinced of his sin?forthrightly accept the blame and repentantly look to Jehovah for help and forgiveness, or does he seek to minimize what he has done, perhaps blaming someone else? True, the person who sins may wish to explain what led up to his acts, and there may be circumstances, either past or present, that elders may need to consider when deciding how to help him. (Compare Hosea 4:14.) But he should accept that he is the one who sinned and that he is responsible before Jehovah. Remember: "Jehovah is near to those that are broken at heart; and those who are crushed in spirit he saves."?Psalm 34:18.

    Practicing

    What Is Bad

    In the book of Psalms, there are many references to wicked people. Such scriptures can further help elders to discern whether a person is basically wicked or weak. For example, consider the inspired prayer of King David: "Do not draw me along with wicked people and with practicers of what is hurtful, those who are speaking peace with their companions but in whose hearts is what is bad." (Psalm 28:3) Notice that wicked people are mentioned in parallel with "practicers of what is hurtful." A person who sins because of fleshly weakness is likely to stop as soon as he comes to his senses. If, though, someone ?practices? what is bad so that it becomes a part of his life, this could be evidence of a wicked heart.

    David mentioned another characteristic of wickedness in that verse. Like Ananias and Sapphira, the wicked person speaks good things with his mouth but has bad things in his heart. He may be a hypocrite?like the Pharisees of Jesus? day who ?outwardly indeed appeared righteous to men but inside were full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.? (Matthew 23:28; Luke 11:39) Jehovah hates hypocrisy. (Proverbs 6:16-19) If someone hypocritically tries to deny his serious sins even when speaking with the judicial committee, or grudgingly admits only what is already known by others, refusing to confess fully, this could well be evidence of a wicked heart.

    Haughty Disregard for Jehovah

    Other things that characterize a wicked person are outlined in Psalm 10. There we read: "In his haughtiness the wicked one hotly pursues the afflicted one; . . . he has disrespected Jehovah." (Psalm 10:2, 3) How are we to view a dedicated Christian who is haughty and disrespects Jehovah? Surely, these are wicked mental attitudes. A person who sins out of weakness will, once he realizes his sin or has it drawn to his attention, repent and strive hard to turn his life around. (2 Corinthians 7:10, 11) In contrast, if a man sins because of a fundamental disrespect for Jehovah, what will stop him from returning again and again to his sinful course? If he is haughty despite being counseled in a spirit of mildness, how can he have the humility needed to repent sincerely and truly?

    Consider now David?s words a little later in the same psalm: "Why is it that the wicked one has disrespected God? He has said in his heart: ?You will not require an accounting.?" (Psalm 10:13) In the setting of the Christian congregation, the wicked man knows the difference between right and wrong, but he does not hesitate to do wrong if he thinks he can get away with it. As long as there is no fear of exposure, he gives full rein to his sinful inclinations. Unlike David, if his sins do come to light, he will scheme to avoid discipline. Such a man is highly disrespectful of Jehovah. "There is no dread of God in front of his eyes. . . . What is bad he does not reject."?Psalm 36:1, 4.

    Harming Others

    Usually, more than one person is affected by a sin. For example, an adulterer sins against God; he victimizes his wife and children; if his partner in sin is married, he victimizes her family; and he stains the good name of the congregation. How does he view all of that? Does he show heartfelt sorrow along with genuine repentance? Or does he manifest the spirit described in Psalm 94: "All the practicers of what is hurtful keep bragging about themselves. Your people, O Jehovah, they keep crushing, and your inheritance they keep afflicting. The widow and the alien resident they kill, and the fatherless boys they murder. And they keep saying: ?Jah does not see; and the God of Jacob does not understand it?"??Psalm 94:4-7.

    Likely, the sins handled in a congregation will not involve murder and killing. Yet the spirit manifested here?the spirit of being ready to victimize others for personal benefit?may become obvious as the elders investigate wrongdoing. This too is arrogance, the mark of a wicked man. (Proverbs 21:4) It is totally the opposite of the spirit of a true Christian, who is willing to sacrifice himself for his brother.?John 15:12, 13.

    Applying Godly Principles

    These few guidelines are not intended to set rules. They do, however, give an idea of some things that Jehovah views as truly wicked. Is there a refusal to accept responsibility for the wrong committed? Has the one who sinned brazenly ignored previous counsel on this very matter? Is there an entrenched practice of serious wrongdoing? Does the wrongdoer manifest a blatant disregard for Jehovah?s law? Has he made calculating efforts to conceal the wrong, perhaps corrupting others at the same time? (Jude 4) Do such efforts only intensify when the wrong comes to light? Does the wrongdoer show total disregard for the harm he has done to others and to Jehovah?s name? What about his attitude? After kindly Scriptural counsel is given, is he haughty or arrogant? Does he lack a heartfelt desire to avoid repeating the wrong? If the elders perceive such things, which strongly indicate a lack of repentance, they may conclude that the sins committed give evidence of wickedness rather than merely weakness of the flesh.

    Even when dealing with a person who seems to have wicked inclinations, elders do not cease to exhort him to pursue righteousness. (Hebrews 3:12) Wicked individuals may repent and change. If that were not the case, why did Jehovah urge the Israelites: "Let the wicked man leave his way, and the harmful man his thoughts; and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him, and to our God, for he will forgive in a large way"? (Isaiah 55:7) Perhaps, during a judicial hearing, the elders will perceive a marked change in his heart condition as reflected in a repentant bearing and attitude.

    Even at the time of disfellowshipping an individual, the elders, as shepherds, will urge him to repent and try to make his way back into Jehovah?s favor. Remember the "wicked man" in Corinth. Evidently he changed his way, and Paul later recommended his reinstatement. (2 Corinthians 2:7, 8) Consider also King Manasseh. He was very wicked indeed, but when he finally repented, Jehovah accepted his repentance.?2 Kings 21:10-16; 2 Chronicles 33:9, 13, 19.

    True, there is a sin that will not be forgiven?sin against the holy spirit. (Hebrews 10:26, 27) Jehovah alone determines who has committed that sin. Humans have no authority to do so. The responsibility of the elders is to keep the congregation clean and to help to restore repentant sinners. If they do so with discernment and humility, letting their decisions reflect Jehovah?s wisdom, then Jehovah will bless this aspect of their shepherding.

    [Footnotes]

    For further information, see The Watchtower of September 1, 1981, pages 24-6; Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2, pages 772-4.

    [Picture on page 29]

    Ananias and Sapphira hypocritically played false to the holy spirit, showing wickedness of heart

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Elders were always told to follow the following Critera in determining whether to DF or not.

    1. Uphold Jehovahs name

    2. Protect the Cong

    3. The persons repentent attitude comes last

    it makes me so angry that I wasted 36 years of my life on this bullshit

    Cas

  • lisavegas420
    lisavegas420
    I've heard of judicial committees DF'ing people because their repentance, although genuine, was of the wrong kind.

    Maybe that's what happened to me....

    They suspect that the accused's being sorry is only the fact that they are feeling sorry for themselves.

    Yes, I was feeling sorry for myself, and lonely, and rejected by Jehovah. My husband at the time was and an alcoholic and very abusive, physically and mentally. To both me and my children. I had an affair.

    They suspect that the accused is showing sorrow only for the fact that they have been found out.

    The thing was, I wasn't found out. I went to the elders and asked if I could talk to them. I thought Jehovah's spirit had left me. I wanted and needed help. I told them everything that I'd done, and why. Being disfellowshipped before, they felt the need to disfellowship me again.

    One elder took me aside and told me to appeal the elders decision. I did, I was still disfellowhipped. After 6 months, and without missing a meeting, and draggin my children to each and everyone of these meetings, I asked to be reinstated. I was told no. I tried again in another 6 months, this time it went though, but was considered a person of low moral standards, and no one would associate with me or my children. After about 6 months of being treated like crap, I divorced my husband and met another man. I just stoped going to meeting, moved, and refused to go to any more meetings. When the elders asked to speak to me, I just avoided them. I can only assume that I was disfellowshiped a third time. My family hasn't spoken to me, except on a few occasions in nearly 15 years.

    Lisa

  • Maverick
    Maverick

    You could take everyplace in that article when a modern comparison is made and change Jehovah for the WTS and you will get an accurate picture of how the Society thinks, and what they expect of their slaves and worker bees. Grovel in fear of them and they are happy, question their authority and you are toast! Maverick

  • pillsbury
    pillsbury

    This is very true. A person may be repentant but they will still be disfellowshipped. Some of the big things they harp on at the elder meetings is:

    Wickedness or Weakness? Has it been practiced (which really means more than once) or was it a one time thing?

    Is their sorrow equel to the degree of sin. For example, if a person does something once and they confess they will more than likely be shown mercy. If they have done it multiple times and had an oportunity to come forward and they didn't and were caught, it will be much more difficult for them not to be disfellowshipped. It depends on the makeup of the JC. If a person has shown a pattern of doing a certain type of sin, like being reproved or disfellowshipped before for it, it really is a slamdunk according to the jc. This is a big point because if the jc doesn't think the repentance is equal to the "crime" the person is disfellowshipped. If a person does a lot of things they ARE going to be disfellowshipped because they would never be able to show equal sorrow in their eyes.

    One other thing they have clarified is in the elder book it makes the statement "On occasion it may take more than one meeting to reach the wrongdoer's heart and move him to repentance." They said this doesn't mean to meet more than once with a person. Too many elders were trying to help people by meeting with them more than once. They said almost all cases can be handled in one visit. This goes to show there is no concern for the person, just the rules. One experience I heard that made me sick is a person appealed the decision to disfellowship and the appeal committee upheld it. One of them said that they believed she was repentant when he/she met with them but she wasn't with the original committee so he/she was disfellowshipped. The logic is an appeal committe doesn't retry a case, it just looks for any outstanding mistakes the 1st committe may have done.

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    The logic is an appeal committe doesn't retry a case, it just looks for any outstanding mistakes the 1st committe may have done.

    This thread answers a lot of questions for me. In my original committee When they asked about any other things I had done I was completely truthful and told them EVERYTHING, most of which they could never have found out about. If I'd kept my mouth shut I probably wouldn't have been df'd, just reproved for the bit that they did know about. And in the appeal committee I was surprised that after they told me the decision stood, none of them would look me in the eye. I think that if all the stuff mentioned there had been said in the original committee then I might not have been df'd, but according to the rule above that would not matter because they only judged on the onriginal infomation.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    If we need only one issue to leave this imposter organization, this is a big one. I have tried to puzzle out the arcane workings of judicial committees, and come away with one overriding conclusion: they are corrupt in many cases, and inadequate in the best of circumstances.

    NO guidelines exist for consistently trying cases. None. In one congregation a person will be disfellowshiped for smoking on the basis of one witness, and in another one he can be seen dozens of times by one person only and NOT be dealt with. All of the guidelines are subjective.

    To me this is a very telling quote:

    In both cases Jehovah made the judgment, and his judgment was correct because he can examine hearts. (Proverbs 17:3) Human elders cannot do that. So how can elders discern whether a serious sin is evidence of weakness more than of wickedness?

    The assumption is made here that God made the decision, and that therefore (unsupported assumption) it is Correct. No reference is made to the fact that David was the KING; it is good to be king and in David's case, he was able to skate by for a long time. Did he have a wicked heart? Well, let's see: he committed adultery, he committed malfeasance in having Uriah killed and covered up the whole affair. THAT to my way of thinking is more wicked a heart than one who holds back a few dollars from a contribution.

    Does it make sense that David got by for so long, and still was king, and got to keep Bathsheba? No, not at all. (The Law called for stoning; I don't recall an exclusion for being repentant, do you?) But for the WT all things must harmonize, and so they say that David MUST not have had a wicked heart. Discouraging that they cannot see the human element in the Bible record.

    But worse, they bring forward the idea that people's private sexual conduct must be judged by the congregation, (even though they pay lip service to the fact that humans are UNABLE to discern the heart, and therefore it's affect on behavior), though there is no evidence of this in David's day or in the early congregation, save for the man who PUBLICLY flaunted his paramour.

    The result: imperfect men, biased men, ones who have bad days, making what are sometimes life and death decisions regarding vulnerable people. Do some people lie? Sure. But do many take to heart the counsel to unburden the heart? Yes, and they are severely punished for their honesty: when they unload what seems to elders to be evidence of wickednes (see, I would regard wickedness as the COVERING UP of a sin, as David did) they are booted out, no questions asked. Disfellowshiping is the one size fits all remedy for acting out behavior, depression, addictive behavior and at times, severe mental illness.

    I have watched two children get baptized in their teens, hit the wall in their late 20's and get disfellowshiped in the middle of serious depression. Thank God, not the WT, they are still alive today and thriving.

    I can't tell you the depth of my anger and contempt for the leaders and followers that are responsible for the inconsistent, amoral treatment of honest people who bring things to the elders. These are the 'hiding place from the wind', I assume.

    Please. I'll take the wind anyday.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    All I can say is that a JC is supposed to be a form of shepherding call-- all I would ask is "What would Jesus do" but now of course I think that DFing is unscriptural anyway - -so I am biased - but yes I have heard the phrase "The right kind of repentance" Just another way of controlling people and giving power to elders and thus keeping the elders loyal to the society

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    My personal history details how poorly I was treated by the elders. Weak?

    I was the one strong enough to be humble to confess and ask for help. And now I'm the one strong enough to stand without them. They'll be the ones begging for MY help before the End... have no regrets for the humiliations I suffered. They filled me with the fire and joy of being alive. I am stronger, meaner, faster, quicker, kinder, more loving, more decisive, and ready to get what I want.

    Lurkers! Know that the elders will not help you - only God can.

    I think that many JC's have "difficult" people that they don't want to be spending every night of the week counseling and judging - so they just invoke the "wrong repentance" clause and ditch the troublemakers. I think they take a sick kind of pleasure in the stir that such a measure makes in the congregation. I think it gives them a powertrip. I think they'd rather be home eating dinner with their families and beating their kids than doing the job that they "reached out" for.

    Sorry, I'm just still kind of bitter about it, but the bitterness has become fuel to drive me into further action and to live my life.

    CZAR

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Sorry, I'm just still kind of bitter about it, but the bitterness has become fuel to drive me into further action and to live my life. CZAR

    I understand czarofmischief

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