WHATS THE REASON? the PART TWO

by elumn8_2 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  elumn8_2

  START OF PART TWO!!

  Disfellowshipping happens a lot and for many different reasons why. Lets say you were smoking, this is a habbit that is not too easy to treat. What if you were an alchoholic, yes that is an ADDICTION called alchoholism. Lets say you were sexually molested at a young age and thats all you knew growing up and that becomes hard wired in your brain that possibly thats ok when it really isn't. People have become attracted to the same sex not because of it being unnatural but because it is VERY natural to them because possibly growing up with just a dad, going to boy scouts, growing up all arround guys and with no women figure in their life they have grown naturally in their lives as having a same sex relationship is normal for them.

  and no for any that think that I'm GAY or an ALCOHOLIC or a SMOKER; No sorry, but I have hurd of people first hand of their thoughts about this and my heart goes out to them because they want to do the right thing by what the bible says but it just doesn't come naturally to them so they get DISFELLOWSHIPPED!!!!

  It is Jesus's undeserved kindness that we should be thinking that will SAVE them. Not toss them arround in and out of the congregations. It was Love of Jesus that should be the main focus and thats why you don't see more rules and more opinions from Paul in his writings in Romans.

  Yes disfellowship is not a word in the bible... although some have been able to make it scriptually based, Paul did write those things. But what if we found that it was Jesus's Love Paul was really trying to describe in an overall scense......

  more of what Jesus said:

  John 8:4,5,7 "4 they said to him: "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of committing adultery. 5 In the Law Moses prescribed for us to stone such sort of women. What, really, do you say? 7When they persisted in asking him, he straightened up and said to them: "Let the one of YOU that is sinless be the first to throw a stone at her."

  Did he disfellowship her? Oh and what about......

  Luke 7:45-50,37 45 You gave me no kiss; but this woman, from the hour that I came in, did not leave off tenderly kissing my feet. 46 You did not grease my head with oil; but this woman greased my feet with perfumed oil. 47 By virtue of this, I tell you, her sins, many though they are, are forgiven, because she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

  oh yeah um did he dissfellowship her too.......... Verse 37 "37 And, look! a woman who was known in the city to be a sinner learned that he was reclining at a meal"

  oh yeah maybe we should have disfellowshipped Jesus for talking to a sinner who knows she sins, everyone knows it and makes weird faces at her, she has to be doing this continuely

  DISFELLOWSHIP JESUS DISFELLOWSHIP JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  yeah well sorry I get carried away... I feel getting dissed is dumb anyone else have the same idea?
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  bearded_tatooed_and_smokin

  I like how you mentioned the imperfection that many people can't help. If we were all born imperfect, than that imperfection can be manifest in many ways that people dont think about.. If there is genes that make some people more prone for alcoholism, or hormonal defects that make some lean to homosexuality? Who knows? But there are many studies.

  Even the human psychology is delicate, on influencing the habit of alcohol, homosexuality, or violence, etc..on how ones were raised, or ones bad personal life experiences..

  Thus the need for Christ.

  The restless, discontented masses of mankind are represented in the Scriptures as the "sea'.

  Jehovah's love for the sin cursed, suffering race of humanity has been made operative through the gift of his Son to be man's redeemer. "For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, in order that no one may perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

  Why the Witnesses pick on others sin and imperfection so much, and why they can't understand this simple remedy of Christ dying for our sins, is beyond me..

  Call them "blind guides"Matthew 15:14, or "anti-Christs" 1 John 2:18 . Shucks, if they dont want to give others the benefit of it, then they dont believe it.
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  jgnat

  Well, lookee here. Two "new ones" supporting each other! Where are we finding all these brainy people? Very insightful, both of you, and welcome!
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  DJ

  Hi newbies! WELCOME !! Sin is sin is sin.....yes and I don't agree with disfellowshipping for smoking. I am curious though, are you saying that alcoholics and homosexuals should be allowed to be in the congregation even if they refuse to see their behavior the way God sees it in the bible? Clearly, you can see that homosexuality and drunkeness are condemned by God. Yes, Jesus died for our sins but does that mean that it is ok to continue to sin? We all sin but there is a fine line between condoning sin and forgiving sin. Are you saying that it is ok to keep on the path of constant sin? Jesus did not teach that. He told the adulteress woman...."Go and sin no more". Important distiction. yes, he forgave her but he wanted her to see that her behavior was wrong and discontinue it. Salvation is a gift for sure but it is the changed heart by the holy spirit that enables one to bear the fruits of righteousness and holiness. If we walk in or condone constant sin...then maybe we need to ask if we have the holy spirit. I am opposed to the teachings of some who say that you just need to confess with your mouth and it is ok to continue walking in constant sin. That is not biblical. Oh, by the way.....no I'm not a jw..LOL. I am a Christian though. Love, dj
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  oldcrowwoman

  welcome elumn8-2

  I understand that you are new here. Its a good place to connect in receiving support in what ever issues you are dealing with. Many resources to plug into. I encourage you in taking care of your self.

  I don't respond to scriptual matters. I do on human matters. I get the sense that you are a young man.

  I need to address some issues here. Regarding Gay people. I don't know where you received information regarding gay people. Who ever is mis-informed.

  I am a Lesbian. I grew up with a mother and father.I was'nt in the girl scouts or the homemakers club. I wanted to be involve in the future farmers of america. No cigar for a girl. I did'nt just acquire being gay. I was born to be gay. Like you are born a hetrosexual. Took me 39 yrs later for me to figure it out. If you like you can read my postings regarding homosexuality.

  I am a recoverying alcoholic 19 yrs and smoke free 5 yrs. Survivor of abuses and my children too.

  I was pushed out of the org. dealing with domestic abuse shortly DA'ed self.

  Being disfellowship or DA'ed is unloving act towards others, dealing with the shunning. Is not something a god would want people to endure. Its totally wrong!!!

  I wish you well on your journey.

  All the Best, OCW
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  bearded_tatooed_and_smokin

  This is in reply to DJ's comment:

  I believe that when one consciencely feels a guilty sin, I do believe as you do that there is no excuse to continue in that sin. For in Jude verse 4 it is stated; "turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our ony owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."

  In Hebrews 6;6 it talks about, "impaling the Son of God afresh for themselves and exposing him to public shame." these seem to be good scriptures to discourage willful continuation of loose conduct.

  the context of these however stresses the responsiblity of 'Holy Ones of God" to not develop in themselves a "wicked heart" in Hebrews 3:12 for example.

  This seems to be applying to a required heart condition rather than a "unclean practice." since God is able to 'discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

  Homosexuality in 1 Cor 6:9 listed among such practices as adultery, thievery, greediness, drunkeness, reviling, and extortioners.

  1 Corinthians 611 talks about being washed clean from these being that is "what some of us were."

  John 15:3 states;" But you have been made clean because of the word that I have spoken to you."

  So, the unclean practices were forgivable by God, being practices of "weak flesh."

  Contrast this to the things Jehovah hates, "lofty eyes, false tongue, murdering hands, wicked heart, wicked feet, lying, and abusing ones own." Proverbs 6:16.

  I never intentioned to say that unclean practices was acceptable, but merely to state it as imperfection of the flesh, and ongoing struggle. Jesus says to forgive upward to 'seventy seven times.' Matthew 18:22, So Jehovah knows how we struggle.

  I think the focus needs to be on guard against "wicked" things, not "unclean" practices...

  Looking at an organization that focuses on the" fleshly" mistakes of others, while denying their coverups, exclusive grandeous attitutes, and stepping over lesser ones because of pride, well that is verging on the brink of "a wicked" heart condition. A wicked heart condition being much more serious than unclean flesh practices.

  That us my argument against the structure of the Watchtower that I had to leave."

  "WHEN THE RIGHTEOUS BECOME MANY, THE PEOPLE REJOICE, BUT WHEN ANYONE WICKED BEARS RULE, THE PEOPLE SIGH." Proverbs 20:2
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  bearded_tatooed_and_smokin

  Note: When I metioned Proverbs 6:16-19 "abusing ones own." it means "to stir up contentions among brethren." Proverbs 13;10 notes this as a characteristic of Pride, , "only by pride cometh contention." So this fits nicely in the characteristics fo a debased heart condition rather that an 'imperfect flesh weakness."

  A contentious person wants to argue to claim victory over another. The Old Timers at Bethel have accomplished this quite well, letting no one else that proclaims the same "sonship' have any say on anything.

  I think they fit nicely into the contentious practice of Matthew 24:49 of "beating his fellow slaves."
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  elumn8_2

  Everyone.... Excellent posts!!!

  And yes I'm a young man.

  About the gay guy that I was talking about... he decided to talk to me at a park. Ironically we had the same name and had a long chat about the bible. As for leasbians, never met one yet. I don't think they are interested in me lol. I guess what I was trying to say is some people can't stop no matter how hard they want to. But all of your posts were excellent in talking about the topics and using scriptures as well!

  keep in touch

  ILLUMINATE
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  rocketman

  Interesting thread. DJ, I'm curious to find out what Christian religion you now belong to, if any. Good post.